Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 26th, 2010

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

One of the reasons I ask is that we had representatives from many countries that were in contact with us directly here, and some by conference call. I don't know if it was a year ago or two years ago. For all the members of the committee, it was quite a learning curve to realize that in some cases we were ahead as a country, and in some cases we were behind, and so on. It was a mixed bag. I was intrigued that you mention research conducted by allied nations. Are you talking about existing research they do? Should we tie in with that in some way?

[Col Patrick Stogran]

Mr. Chair, I think in many ways we do tie in. We participate in boards and symposiums and there is an exchange of information.

What I find disturbing is that a study as comprehensive as the ALS study that the United States military did was basically denied. There's a similar study. And I can't comment on the scientific rigour of the PTSD study, but these are the kinds of things that we should be taking on.

Indeed, for Korean war veterans, we have adopted some of the studies that the Australians have done in terms of chest ailments. It seems that there is no desire to actively reach out and find these sources of information that we might be able to apply in the Canadian context.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Do you think it would be helpful then, in terms of that research and pushing it forward, that a committee such as this should be part of the review of the research when it comes back?

[Col Patrick Stogran]

Mr. Chair, I think the more leadership that is exercised in terms of being proactive in trying to secure peace of mind for our veterans once they've made the ultimate sacrifice, the better, yes indeed.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you.

Do I have time left or is that it?

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

You have one minute.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

When you talk about the risks against the standards of the department, I just want to be clear. I know that quite a while ago we had a quick talk about that and the decentralization. I think we were basically agreeing that caseworkers and those out in the field probably could be more engaged in terms of feeding into the decision-making.

Do they tie together? I notice that you have them in this same number 9, the risk-taking as compared to the caseworkers, I'm going to say, but the ground level people. How do you tie that together?

[Col Patrick Stogran]

Mr. Chair, that's exactly it. It's a continuum starting with the caseworker. I can give an example of an 80-year-old veteran who had to get three quotes to send to Charlottetown for an orthopedic toilet seat. It was $300. It's something that the case manager should have been able to buy of his or her own volition.

There are other examples. I'm not exactly sure of the facts, but I think it was in Victoria where they were overworked so the files that had to be actioned were sent to St. John's, Newfoundland because they didn't have the work. They were all sent there and any problems had to be dealt with in that fashion.

I firmly believe that if the people who have to face the veterans were empowered, the system would look after itself if they were properly led, and we wouldn't have to be bringing all decisions for money into Charlottetown or related offices.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Final question, Ms. Duncan.

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Colonel, thank you for this afternoon.

Can you comment on what percentage of Agent Orange claims have been paid? We continue to get claims in our office, whether or not you are still receiving claims for compensation. Can you comment on the fairness of the 2006 date, the fairness of the illnesses covered, and what you would recommend doing to address veterans' and families' concerns, please?

[Col Patrick Stogran]

I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I don't have that kind of resolution in terms of the numbers. Suffice it to say that there have been complaints that have come our way from veterans and from civilians.

With the town halls that I've done in the New Brunswick area in and around Gagetown, I'm quite disturbed by the Agent Orange situation, not only on the base but how it has affected surrounding communities. As a Canadian, I feel that the movie Erin Brockovich might describe the level of seriousness. I'm not at all confident that the studies that have been done have been completely transparent and impartial and are really being fair to people in and around there. But that's just my judgment based on having met with several hundred people, including civilians, non-veterans, who have come to my town halls to complain about it, so I don't have that....

[Kirsty Duncan, Liberal, Etobicoke North, ON]

Lise, did you want to...?

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

You briefly mentioned Ste. Anne's Hospital. It is not in my riding, but in a neighbouring riding. Each time that I go to the Royal Canadian Legion, this is a very heated topic. The veterans are worried, and we know that at the end of the Afghanistan mission, and after the missions in Bosnia and Korea, we will need more room.

I would appreciate your comments and your recommendations regarding the Ste. Anne's Hospital.

[Col Patrick Stogran]

Mr. Chair, the whole idea of long-term care and how long the commitment should be to look after our veterans perplexes me. I know the argument has been made that constitutionally it's a provincial responsibility, but we saw in Ontario that the facilities for psychiatric treatment of families in and around the Petawawa area weren't adequate. André Marin launched and the basic answer was that the feds picked the fight, they can pay for the fight. He had to reverse that kind of attitude.

Also, I think the business model--if they have a business model--that sees the department divorcing itself of St. Anne's and like facilities is fundamentally flawed, because I have not seen a really accurate assessment about what the potential impact of PTSD is, recognizing that we'll use the argument that provincial health care didn't exist after Korea. Well, we didn't know about the psychological problems that military people endure, so what will be the impact?

The Americans have already done a study and have determined that people with PTSD have a higher propensity of early-onset dementia. So I think before we step away from the traditional care for life for our veterans, we have to really take a look at what the veteran is and give a realistic prognosis of what the veterans will be facing in 20 or 30 years.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

I thank you very much for your candid answers to the many questions that were asked here today.

I, personally, as chair of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, would like to thank you again for your service to the country, both as a member of the military and in your three years as Veterans Ombudsman. Please accept my thanks.

[Col Patrick Stogran]

Thank you very much, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

With that, we will adjourn the meeting.

[Applause]