Veterans Affairs Committee on March 18th, 2010

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Once again, these hospitals have been transferred to the provinces. The only one left is Ste. Anne's Hospital. Veterans are now sent to provincial hospitals where beds are reserved for them. We pay the provinces. When a veteran is hospitalized in a hospital under provincial responsibility and takes a bed we have reserved, we pay those costs, which are refunded to the province.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer and Mr. Minister.

We now move on to Mr. Mayes for five minutes.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the minister and Madam Tining for being here.

There are only three of us here who are original members of this committee from four years ago when the government chartered a new direction for the delivery of benefits and care for veterans and veterans' families. At that time the government added $740 million over five years to expand and improve benefits for veterans and their families.

In the year 2007 budget, $130 million was allocated. I just want to know whether this budget amount has met the cost of providing the expanded services to the veterans. Further to that, as we develop the Veterans Charter and identify more issues around the provisions of benefits and care for our veterans and their families, can you foresee that those added funds will cover those costs?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Of course, we always base our estimates on the number of “new” veterans and the new Veterans Charter, which has been in effect since 2006, and was unanimously passed by the House of Commons in 2005. That is our policy direction. Correct me if this figure is off the mark, but $741 million has been added to the budget over the last four or five years. Is it four or five years?

[Suzanne Tining]

Some $741 million in funding was announced over a five-year period, but the cost was $831 million in the first four years.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

I will start over. An amount of $741 million was earmarked for five years. In reality, it cost us $841 million over four years.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Thank you.

In reviewing those benefits and comparing what happens in other countries and how they treat their veterans, does the department look at the cost per veteran and do a comparison with countries like Australia, the United States, or the U.K.? Do you have any of those comparisons available?

[Suzanne Tining]

We work very closely with a number of countries: Australia, New Zealand, the United States, and the United Kingdom in particular. We have meetings on a regular basis. The minister and I just came back from New Zealand, from a ministerial forum of these countries.

We do have, and we could provide to the committee, the comparison on the cost per veteran, but I would quickly add that it is a very skewed picture, because in this country, as you well know, health care is a provincial jurisdiction, so our cost per veteran will not account for the amount of money the provinces are putting into the care of veterans.

Different countries have different organizations, constitutionally and otherwise, so it's a very imperfect picture, but we could provide you, with all of the caveats, a comparison of at least these five countries.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

I would just like to add this. We travelled to Wellington, New Zealand, for the International Forum of Veterans Affairs Ministers. The other countries at the table were very interested in our new Charter. They saw it as progress. They are monitoring what is being done in this country. They are assessing the progress we are making and how we have achieved that progress. Of course, a charter is constantly evolving. We have pledged to monitor that evolution. As gaps appear, we will need the necessary insight to correct the Charter on behalf of all our veterans. In terms of what it offers, Canada is very well thought of by the other countries.

[Colin Mayes, Conservative, Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Considering what is happening in Afghanistan, the veterans we're seeing today, do you see a spike in the cost of providing those benefits and care to veterans, maybe because of some of the more catastrophic injuries, and especially around mental wellness, mental health?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Logically, our presence in Afghanistan means that military personnel return with injuries following our operations over there. There are more of them, because of our deployment to that country, or when conflicts arise elsewhere in the world. That is a reality.

And then there is post-traumatic stress syndrome. That is new, as it has only been around for a few years. It is recognized scientifically. Now a lot more people suffer from it, but not all at the same time. This is a new reality we have to deal with. That is why I was giving you examples of numbers earlier, just so that you would have an idea of the way it works, depending on the individuals returning to Canada. Whether they've been in Haiti or somewhere else, images of what they have seen stay with them, whether they like it or not.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Blackburn. Thank you Mr. Mayes.

Now on to Mr. Andrews. I believe you're going to split your time with Madam Crombie, for five minutes.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Thank you so much.

A question, Ms. Tining, regarding the community war memorial program. Is it different from the cenotaph monument restoration program?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

It is not the same thing. This is a new program we are introducing to allow communities who are interested to pay tribute to their veterans—of course, there is a good chance that some will want to honour those soldiers who died in Afghanistan—by building or erecting a cenotaph in their memory.

If we have a budget of $1 million a year over two years—some $2 million altogether—we will not be providing $1 million for a single monument. We will try to distribute the budget envelope proposed to Cabinet based on certain expectations for the country as a whole.

In the last three years, we have received 50 requests to erect a cenotaph. At that time, there was no program. That gives us an idea of the requests we could receive. Such requests have also been addressed to Canadian Heritage.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Okay. I'm familiar with the number of requests.

How much money has gone into it, Ms. Tining? What's budgeted for the monument restoration program this year?

[Suzanne Tining]

If you want to just....

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Okay, my other question is this. Minister, will the community war memorial program be administered through your external review committee, the outside independent committee that monitors the monument restoration program? Will that committee be the committee that allocates the funding for that particular program--yes or no--or will you commit here today that that committee will administer that money?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

If you are referring to the new program, the answer is no. The decision regarding the awarding of that money was a decision for the Department and the Minister. It's important to remember the specific parameters that apply. First of all, the community must be involved. The government must not be the only one providing financial support. We don't have a large enough budget for that. There was no committee looking at this. At the Department, our people are involved.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Why wouldn't you let the external review committee administer that funding? You just said the minister would decide. Is this going to be a political program where you decide which war memorials get placed where?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

So, you are not talking about this standing committee, are you?

[Suzanne Tining]

Maybe I can try to answer--

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

No, no, I'm talking about the external review committee that administers the monument restoration program. Why wouldn't the community war memorial program be administered by that committee? They apply to that committee for funding and then that committee decides which war memorials get the funding.

[Suzanne Tining]

Let me provide clarification, and I'll let Minister Blackburn finish the answer.

We had a program where we had money to help restore cenotaphs and monuments that you just talked about. We now have a new program that allows us to provide some funding for the construction of new cenotaphs. That's the distinction. For the restoration program, we had a technical committee reviewing the requests for funding for restoration of monuments, so that is very much part of the way of doing business in the department. Our own staff and external experts were looking at the proposals for funding, to make sure they were sound from an engineering standpoint and from every other technical aspect of the restoration.

For the new program announced in the new budget, we are working as we speak on the governance of how to implement this government's decision on funding.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Could that committee do that work?

[Suzanne Tining]

It certainly could. We are just working on how to administer and manage this new program, with due regard to a certain way of being nimble--in order to approve as many requests from community groups as possible during a year.