Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2010

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

I am talking about both.

[LCol Rakesh Jetly]

CF doesn't compensate. We treat our soldiers, so if somebody has a diagnosis of PTSD given by a professional who is able to give that diagnosis, our first approach is treatment. Basically with the patient, we determine what they desire--and most of our soldiers want to continue working and staying within the organization--so we provide them with timely evidence-based care for their illness. So yes--

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Do you agree with that?

[LCol Stéphane Grenier, Operational Stress Injury Special Advisor, Chief Military Personnel, Department of National Defence]

I don't believe the diagnosis will be refuted. In the past, I have noticed that it could be rejected sometimes, following our recommendations on retaining a soldier in the Canadian Forces. I agree with Dr. Jetly in terms of the diagnosis not being refuted as such. But, at my level, it can happen that we try to convince the Canadian Forces to keep someone with a diagnosis like that.

I have often noticed in the past that the treating specialist's recommendations were not always accepted by the mental health bureaucratic system in the Canadian Forces. That's a fact. There are all kinds of reasons for that.

Personally, I am not a clinician. I try to get involved as much as I can, but, at some stage, the doctor's recommendations come into play.

I have actually noticed that in the past.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

If I understand correctly, you are saying that, if a diagnosis has been made, it is recognized because it has been made, but it is not necessarily accepted for compensation since it can still be challenged.

[LCol Stéphane Grenier]

But, as Dr. Jetly said, the compensation does not come from the Canadian Forces. The compensation comes from the Department of Veterans Affairs. We often say that we should perhaps keep the soldier in the Canadian Forces, because that is a type of compensation in itself.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

If the diagnosis is made, that means the member of the Canadian Forces can be told that he is done, he is laid off, he is no longer needed, and he becomes a veteran.

You don't keep someone diagnosed with PTSD. They are discharged, just like General Dallaire. You discharged him.

[LCol Stéphane Grenier]

I personally suffer from PTSD and major depression. I take my medication every morning. That's not necessarily the case anymore. That's what OSISS—the program we talked about earlier—does. We are really pushing the system to make sure the people who have received that diagnosis are not rejected right away. That is changing significantly. More and more soldiers are being retained. That's a fact. Is everyone being retained? No, they are not. I'm not better than anyone else, but I am still able to serve. I sometimes have bad days and sometimes things do not go well, but that's not the general rule. I believe it's just like any other medical condition. This has changed over the past 10 years. Would I like to be able to retain more soldiers? Yes, I would, but I am not going to tell you that they are all rejected. That is no longer the case.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Mr. Stoffer, please.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, gentlemen, for coming.

In your first slide you talked about the number of suicides of CF members. Does this include reservists and any of those who have left the military?

[LCol Rakesh Jetly]

There are two initiatives going on. Actually, the statistics that we're showing are CF regular force.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

So that's reservists, veterans, their family members.

[LCol Rakesh Jetly]

Yes. I mean, veterans we wouldn't necessarily do anyway. I think the reservist is a good question. It's very hard to define reservists. Statistically speaking, there are people who parade one day a week, one day a month, and there are people who are on full-time contracts, those kinds of things.

Now, I don't know if you have heard about the CAMS study that we're just starting. From 1972 on, for anybody who served--veterans or whoever--we will have an idea of how they died, their mortality. So we'll have a good idea by looking at different illnesses, those kinds of things.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

On one of your slides it says that CF members have “excellent access” to pharmacotherapy and psychotherapy. Does that include reservists as well?

[LCol Rakesh Jetly]

For reservists, it depends on the type of contract you're on.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

It also depends on your location.

[LCol Rakesh Jetly]

Yes, all those factors.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

So not all CF members have access to this.

[LCol Rakesh Jetly]

No, they do.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

It says here they have “excellent access”. I spoke to a couple in Thunder Bay who don't. They're having difficulty finding access. They have to travel from Thunder Bay to another area in order to get assistance.

[LCol Rakesh Jetly]

We are in a very large country. So you can't have a 50-person clinic on the west coast of Newfoundland--

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Understandable.

[LCol Rakesh Jetly]

--but you can fly the soldiers into Halifax to get their assessment. We have gone all over the Atlantic to try to train people. Somebody asked the question about training. We put on workshops to try to increase the level of knowledge within the professionals in the communities to help look after the soldiers.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay.

A question was asked about screening prior to employment with the regular forces. Is there an extensive mental health screening process before a person is actually signed on with the CF?

[LCol Rakesh Jetly]

No.