Evidence of meeting #34 for Veterans Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was doctor.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
Charlottetown must be demystified. Everyone talks about Charlottetown and no one knows what it means. We have to know whether the people there changing decisions that have been made are really doctors. That will go a long way, I feel. There, I gave you three priorities.
Conservative
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Thank you, Mr. Schellenberger.
The first question is for Mr. Beaudin. You made your presentation today, and I just wondered if you have any suggestions on paper, or if your organization has any--five, ten, or fifteen recommendations--showing your vision of a way forward. Maybe you sent them in and they haven't been translated. Do you have something that we would be able to include in this report?
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
I was asked to appear a week ago. I did not have time to prepare a brief and to make copies. But I will get you a brief, with some suggestions. Our administrative committee will sit down with a number of veterans and we will send you a brief with suggestions. It will be done professionally. I had to come here and do this almost off the cuff, with a week's notice, and I couldn't get everything done. You have to understand that it is even difficult for me to get ready to come here. The trip from Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu by car took five hours, in a snow storm. That shows you that I really wanted to tell you what I was feeling. I did so on behalf of all veterans. I will prepare a professional brief for you.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
I appreciate that. That's going to be helpful, because so far we're kind of having a discussion and a lot of it is just matter-of-fact conversation, so specific suggestions and recommendations will obviously help with the quality of the report that we can put out.
I also wondered if your organization has begun to compile data on some of the points you've brought out about wait times or the length of time to visit physicians. Do you have a way to collect data that we could also share?
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
I have started to ask several comrades of mine to give me copies of pending files and to tell me how long it has been since they first submitted their application for compensation and care. Some have been waiting for 3, 4 or 5 years. I have started to compile data, except that I need all the guys to give me the information and photocopy the files. Most of them do not have them at hand because they get them only after the decisions are made. I am trying to get all the information I can. It is very difficult to get everything in such a short time. But, yes, we have started to put files together.
When we started, that was not the goal of the organization. We did not want to get that deeply into it, but we saw that there was an awful gap. So we are now going for it. We established Veterans UN-NATO Canada to help our comrades and, as you now see, we have to come to Ottawa to give evidence because we can see the gap and no one is there to represent us anymore.
Conservative
Ben Lobb Conservative Huron—Bruce, ON
Yes, and specifically, one number struck me: you said that 99% of the applications--I think for a disability award--were rejected. I think if you're able to compile some data amongst your members, that would be helpful.
There was one other point I wanted to go back to. In your presentation, you talked about a 4% pension and a 4% lump sum payment for an issue you'd heard about--for someone's back or something like that. I wasn't sure if you were speaking about yourself or in general. I wonder if you could tell the committee a little bit more; I think you did 25% divided by 10, times five or something like that, and you got to 4%.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
In 1993, I was diagnosed with a cervical hernia. I got compensation at the 25% level for that. At the time, they didn't split pensions.
But when I was in the infantry with the Royal 22nd Regiment, my work required me to use my knees in a particular way. So my knees started to bother me a lot. After applying for compensation and appealing the decision twice, I got a pension. But, to my utter surprise, when I got my huge 5% pension, I saw that it had been split and that I was only being given four-fifths of it. I wondered what this new splitting was and why even more was being taken away from the little compensation we were entitled to.
I have all my documents with me, but I did not photocopy them. I have everything here. I do not know where the four-fifths or the two-fifths come from. We are given 25% or 15%, but that amount is split into fifths. So we don't actually get 25%, but two-fifths or three-fifths of the 10% or the 15% we are entitled to. That is new.
Conservative
Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
Thank you for being here, Mr. Beaudin and Mr. Drapeau. I know that it takes a lot of courage to come here and testify before us. You are doing it in an exemplary way.
I would like to discuss two things with you quickly. You talked about the link between soldiers, or veterans, and bureaucrats. Twice in two weeks, I have heard about the relationship with bureaucrats when it comes to getting services. Last week, we heard about a veteran being treated like some welfare scrounger or panhandler, or something of the sort.
Honestly, have you or your fellow veterans had situations when bureaucrats treated you with disrespect?
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
Yes. It happened to me in 2005 before I applied for compensation for post-traumatic stress syndrome. The application did not actually come from me. Someone suggested that I apply. He convinced me that I had it and that I had to get treated for it. He said that it wasn't right and that it would turn out badly. I did not even know that I had post-traumatic stress syndrome. But I knew that my experience in the military was the problem.
So, yes, some bureaucrats are not very polite to us, especially when you call the number on the card that veterans are issued. We are often told that we are free to go somewhere else if we are not happy. Sometimes, we just get put on hold. Then we just have to hang up, because there is no one on the other end anymore. We never know where in Canada we are calling. We might be talking to someone in New Brunswick or someone in Winnipeg. We never know who we are talking to. We have to give up on the idea of calling the same person back; the same person never answers. That has happened a number of times.
A comrade of mine told me recently that, when he was in a psychiatrist's office, he was accused of trying to manipulate people. He was told that he should be happy to get the pension he was getting because other people could work for 40 years and not get that amount in their old age. That is the kind of comment that someone else reported to me recently.
Bloc
Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
When a bureaucrat makes disparaging remarks about a soldier or a veteran, can you complain? Is there an impartial complaints committee that you can complain to? In health care facilities, like hospitals or CLSCs, for example, there is a committee that deals with complaints of bad service.
Can you complain about that bureaucrat to a committee?
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
You can call from home and the person on the other end—French-speaking or English-speaking, there's no difference—does not give you a proper answer.
There is also the way you address them. If you are ill, you won't be speaking calmly and smiling nicely. You could well be getting more and more anxious. If the person on the other end interprets that as a threat or whatever, they may just hang up on you. In a case like that, you have no recourse because you do not know their name. I have asked the people I was talking to for their name and no one has ever wanted to tell me.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
I get the first name. If the person gives me the information I need and I want to call back, it is practically impossible. I cannot even call my case officer directly. I have to go through the help line. Whomever I speak to then calls my case officer who then calls me.
Bloc
Guy André Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC
You mentioned the mutual support groups that you have established for veterans. How many people are in those groups? Do you have weekly meetings?
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
They meet weekly, all over Canada. In Quebec, there are about 700 or 800 of us. There is a weekly meeting in Saint-Jean, one in Gatineau—that one will be held tomorrow evening—one in Quebec City and one in Estrie. Groups of comrades get together every evening of the week.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
They are all comrades in arms. Most of us served together. We have all gotten to know each other over the last 30 years. We are very close. The bond is very strong.
Founder, Veterans UN-NATO Canada
We get together because we can't relate to contact with civilians. Getting together once a week is the only way to have a normal life. That is why we started it. I started it on a small scale, but it has become a monster. Now we have groups all over Canada. If you go to my website, you will see that they are all over the place.
