Evidence of meeting #39 for Veterans Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was board.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
They were pretty good at keeping records for the Second World War veterans too. It's surprising; I think they had a lot more administrative resources throughout the years, but I think we have more paper today.
4:05 p.m.
Director General, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
Yes, exactly.
They're more accessible.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS
The reason I ask is that I think we've all run into the situation where veterans, in a level of frustration, come for appeal and so on. But by that time it's been a fairly long road for some of them.
One of the things I think we've run into consistently is the transition from active military, from DND care, to Veterans care. One of the repeated comments was the availability of records or the access to records, that type of thing.
That's why I'm asking you, because the modern vets are far more aware of and interested in having the records with them. I wondered if you see any difference in that. They seem to be far more aware of what's...and they're probably a bit more aggressive in going after the information they're looking for as well.
Have you noticed that at all? Is there a difference in approach in recent years?
4:05 p.m.
Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
In one sense, the modern vets are much more cognizant about maintaining records. Perhaps a lot of it has to do with modern technology, as well, as we try to do on the board in trying to work towards being more efficient, making our material more readily available to our members. It assists us in being able to schedule cases more rapidly and improve our process.
One of the things we're doing on a continual basis is attempting to improve the process for the benefit of our applicants in order that they get their decisions sooner. We understand the frustration of the length of time it takes to go through the different processes, but I believe we're always working on and listening to the ways in which we can improve how we deliver our services to veterans.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS
You kind of gave me a segue there on something I wanted to ask. One of the things the department and the minister and the government try to respond to is that one of the overwhelming complaints was the amount of time it took to get through departmental requests and process. There's a real effort at speeding that up.
Have you noticed that's been a frustration with your board as well? Has that come up more often about how long it takes? Is that an issue you're trying to deal with?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
I can answer that.
Yes, it's the same challenge for us, because we're seeking the same medical service records. Oftentimes they do exist in the department, so we're able to access them if the appeal is made close enough to the time that they're still retained within the department. But if we need to obtain them from DND, then we have some of the same access issues, depending on the location.
We're always interested in any improvements that can be made in speeding up that process.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS
Okay.
Is there still some time? Yes.
That again is one of the issues that we raise, seeing a more seamless transition from DND to Veterans. I know that Veterans Affairs is moving back further into the initial process so the information is shared at a quicker stage, but still there is a frustration with the length of time, and that's why I raised it.
It's been raised before, and I'm just wondering.... Certainly the department's being encouraged to hire more veterans to be part of the process, and it's come up today. Do you see a time when veterans would be more visible or a bigger part of the review process, or do you think that really would make much difference?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
I can speak on behalf of the public service side in terms of the staff. It's one of the things that we've looked at in our own human resources planning, to include the Canadian Forces members as part of our area selection whenever we do internal staffing so that we're opening it wide enough that we can invite Canadian Forces members to participate in our selection processes. Hopefully we can hire more Canadian Forces members within our own staffing complement.
Of course, in terms of any priority referrals that come to us through the special priorities from Canadian Forces, we always consider them. That's part of our own human resources planning.
We're actually just running a process that is open to the Canadian Forces members throughout the--
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
Definitely. For us, in that particular area we're doing now, to have someone who is familiar with the documentation that relates to the Canadian Forces would be a great advantage for us in preparing our statements of cases and things. It would be a big advantage.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
Greg Kerr Conservative West Nova, NS
Okay.
I think I understood you to say that the numbers went up in the last year or two. Is there evidence--you might not be able to answer this accurately--that more and more of these are young veterans who have gone through the stress levels? Is that part of why the numbers would be up?
4:10 p.m.
Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
It's difficult to determine because of the fact that there's no time limit on when an individual can come before the board to have a decision either reviewed or appealed. It's not necessarily that they had a previous ruling within the last year that they want to have processed through appeal. It could have been many years ago. That type of information is difficult to obtain.
Dale, do you have more information?
4:10 p.m.
Director General, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
I don't have any information at all on the ages and the combinations.
4:10 p.m.
Conservative
4:10 p.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for coming. We appreciate it.
I'm going to pick up on the stats. I'm wondering if you can table with the committee statistics from the last five years, such as the initial decisions by Veterans Affairs Canada, review decisions by the review board, appeal decisions by the review board, reconsideration decisions, decisions by the Federal Court, and reconsideration decisions ordered by the Federal Court.
I believe you said that the number of cases VAC looks at each year is about 40,000. You make about 4,100 decisions, and 1,400 of those are appealed. That seems awfully high to me. That's 34%. I'm wondering if you can give us that data for the last five years, as well.
I also wonder if you could table with the committee your framework. I understand section 39. That's a legal framework you have to work within. It doesn't provide a lot of guidance for decision-making, so I'm wondering if you could provide your decision-making process--the steps followed--to the committee.
I'm going to pick up on what Mr. Stoffer was talking about. There are 24 members of the appeal board, and one of them has medical expertise, a nursing background. Is that correct?
4:15 p.m.
Chair, Veterans Review and Appeal Board
Actually, two do. One of them, a former military who served in Afghanistan as a nurse, also has a nursing background. So we actually have two.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
It is two. Okay.
I guess my point is that you are being asked to look at very complex cases. Some of these cases go back eight or ten or more years. For example, you may have dementia and PTSD. You may have someone who has multiple sclerosis: is there a link between PTSD and the start of MS or an exacerbation of MS, or between cancer and environmental health risks? Or you may be looking at someone who's developed PTSD twenty years after the fact. As Mr. Stoffer rightly says, you're provided with tremendous amounts of medical information from doctors, in many cases your own military doctors.
I'm just wondering how you can make that decision when the doctors are saying that their conditions are linked.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
Just before you answer, I must say that you've been asked a very lengthy question. You have two minutes to answer.
I would hope that maybe what we can do is.... It's great to make a statement, but we have our witnesses here to get answers today, so please.
Now I've taken up 13 seconds.
Please, we'll have a two-minute answer for that very lengthy question.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
I believe it's my choice how I choose to use my time, Mr. Chair.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Gary Schellenberger
The witness then does not have to reply any longer than the one minute.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Mr. Chair, just on a point, Ms. Duncan did ask for the witnesses to submit to the committee the answers to her initial questions. She was not asking them to respond to all of those questions.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal