Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 28th, 2011

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

There are a few question there.

I think we probably share the same sorts of issues you are dealing with. I don't know a lot about this particular area--it's not a field of my expertise--but with regard to your comments that a lot of veterans do not gravitate towards social networking sites, I think it depends a lot on whether they are inclined to be involved in that sort of thing.

I think the approach in our defence force is to look at different ways of engaging with veterans. Certainly the particular social networking site I was talking about, www.touchbase.gov.au, is one idea that will cater to some veterans who are inclined to be involved in social networking. However, it's not going to be for everybody, which is why our Department of Veterans' Affairs is looking at other ways they can reach out to the veterans community to try to engage them.

My guess is that we're struggling with the same issues that you are. One technique does not capture everybody; it does not cater for everyone.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Is your LifeSMART resilience training a one-size-fits-all model, or is it geared to each individual who takes advantage of that program?

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

At the moment, the LifeSMART program is still being developed. We've had some issues with it. Trying to fit the LifeSMART program into the two-day transition course is not an easy matter because, as you can imagine, at that transition program we have people who are leaving the defence force for all sorts of reasons.

You might have someone who is leaving because they've been medically downgraded; they have to leave and they don't want to leave, so they may be a bit bitter about that. You may have someone who's leaving voluntarily because they've done their minimum period of service, they have a good job lined up outside, and they're quite happy that they're leaving. Their motivation for leaving and their attitude about leaving are quite different from those of the first person I described. You also have family members who attend this two-day transition course.

So it's a very heterogeneous group. They are leaving under very different circumstances. The challenge we have with the LifeSMART program is in tailoring it for everybody's needs, and of course you would never get that. You would never come up with a package that everyone is going to be relating to and engaging with. We are still developing it. We're going to do a trial of it soon and see how it goes, but my guess is that we're going to have to keep modifying it as we go.

We're going to have to use examples to teach people the sorts of coping strategies they're going to be using to deal with problems outside in civilian life, strategies that will cater for people with different needs. Someone who has been medically discharged is going to have different coping needs compared to someone who is voluntarily discharging and has a good job lined up outside. It's a challenge for us at the moment.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

The next question is from Mr. Lobb, please, and then we'll go to Mr. Lamoureux.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The first question I have is in regard to the family and family support. Can you outline some of the programs that you provide to a member's family?

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

At the moment, our defence mental health workforce--our nurses, doctors, and psychologists--do not actually work with families per se. We have a Defence Community Organisation, DCO, and DCO works closely with the families.

DCO does not work with individual defence force members, but with their families. At the moment, this is a bit of an issue for us, because on the one hand you might have a defence force psychologist working with the member and DCO working with the member's family, and there is not so much of the two agencies working together. At the moment we are looking at ways in which our defence mental health professionals can engage more with the family of the member with the mental health problem and work more closely with DCO.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

How many years has DCO been in operation?

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

I don't know exactly when they came into being. I know that they had already been in for quite a while before I joined back in 1987, so they've been going for a long time now. They've gone through some major policy changes. Up until a few years ago, DCO was actually working with individual defence force members, but then they changed their policy and said they're only working with the families of the defence force members.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Okay. Everything changes with time.

Is DCO viewed as a success within your organization?

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

I believe so, yes. Certainly the family members, from my experience as a psychologist working with members and their families, often report that the social workers in DCO have helped them and have provided them with the support they needed.

However, as I said, we need to work much more closely, and we need to work at how we can get the family members working with our defence mental health professionals so that we get the two of them together. As a defence force psychologist, I've been in for about 23 years and I haven't actually done much work with families. I've done some couples therapy, but we have not done much work with the family members. We've left that with DCO. That has been a limitation, and we're trying to work through those sorts of issues.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

You also mentioned some of the difficulties you have encountered in tracking veterans if they haven't signed up for benefits or been through a program. Is that a priority right now within your organization, or is it something you're continuing to monitor moving forward?

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

That's something the Department of Veterans' Affairs is really looking at. I don't know whether it's a priority for them. I can certainly find out. I've mentioned that I'll speak with our Department of Veterans' Affairs about statistics. I can certainly put the question to them about whether this is something they would be doing.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I'll maybe put it a little differently. When they go through their two-day transition session, are the benefits that they would potentially be eligible for through Department of Veterans' Affairs reviewed at that time so they are aware of the benefits and aware that they really won't be tracked in the system unless they do work within veterans' affairs?

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

I believe that is the case. I believe they are advised of that, but I can clarify that for you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Now we move to Mr. Lamoureux, Mr. Vincent, and then Mr. Kerr.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Colonel, I was thinking again about that transition out of the LifeSMART program. As in Australia, a significant percentage of Canada's population is vets who have already been released or have been part of civilian life for many years. Do you see any value in expanding or modifying that LifeSMART program for those individuals who have been out of the force for a few years? Do you see value in that?

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

Yes, I think I do. As I mentioned, that has not been such a priority for us up until now; however, we have had talks with the veteran community about the idea of expanding our psychological resilience programs for veterans. It's something we will be looking at, but it hasn't been such a priority for us up until now, because we've been trying to bed the programs down for our defence members, especially for those who are going on deployment and coming back from their deployment as well. However, I certainly see a lot of value in expanding these programs out to the veteran community. Yes, I think it would be a very valuable thing.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

I'd like to ask about the staff-year resources that Australia would use for the development of these programs and the administration of these programs. Is there a sense of what kind of resources you're talking about?

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

Do you mean in terms of using the programs for the veteran community?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

No, I mean even in the general force in itself. For example, the number of psychologists has increased, I trust, within the Australian force. Is there some sense of the resource requirement for providing these types of programs?

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

Because the BattleSMART program is cognitive behavioural therapy, it needs to be delivered by psychologists at this stage. We may be looking at a bit of flexibility with that policy down the track. We are expanding our mental health workforce within our defence force, because we've just undergone a major review of our mental health services.

You may have heard of the Dunt review. It was conducted in 2008-2009. Professor Dunt, from the University of Melbourne, conducted a major review of our mental health section in the defence force and the services that we provide in mental health. He recommended that we expand the delivery of the BattleSMART program and that we expand our mental health workforce, so we are bringing on mental health nurses, clinical social workers, and other mental health professionals—psychologists and the like—to enhance our mental health workforce around Australia. We bring these people on board and train them up in cognitive behavioural therapy, and then they may be able to deliver the BattleSMART programs as well. At the moment it is a bit resource-intensive, because it does need psychologists, but that may be helped down the track.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Finally, Australia is obviously wanting to play a lead role in the world in developing a program such as this. Where do you turn to gain some expertise? Are there other countries that you're aware of? It may be under a different name. Where do you turn for inspiration, if I can put it that way, in terms of development of your own programs? Perhaps you could provide a very brief comment, if you are familiar with what the Canadian system currently has.

[LCol Andrew Cohn]

I'm not so familiar with the Canadian approach to preventive mental health. I am a bit aware of what the Americans are doing.

The Americans have actually borrowed our BattleSMART program. We've worked closely with Dr. Amy Adler and Colonel Carl Castro from the American military. Dr. Adler came over in 2009. She observed the delivery of BattleSMART at the army recruit training centre, and she took the slides back to the States, where they came up with their own version of the BattleSMART program. They trialed it at Fort Jackson. I'm sure Dr. Adler would be able to share with you the results of that trial.

We have worked very closely with the Americans in the development of our resilience program, but not so much with the Canadians. I would be very interested to find out what the Canadians are doing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Thank you.

Go ahead, Mr. Vincent, please, and try to be short.