Veterans Affairs Committee on March 21st, 2011

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

It should be pointed out that $276,000 is the maximum amount.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Indeed, the ceiling is $276,000.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

That is the amount that is generally quoted, but for a 20% or 25% disability, people are given sums that are more in the order of $50,000 to $66,000.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

That is why we took those aspects into consideration. We even did a study to see what people's satisfaction level was. Over 69% of people said they were happy with the lump sum payment. But 31% of people were unhappy. So we really started wondering and looking into why those people were unhappy. That is when we realized that many of them had mental health issues. That was one side of the problem, but there were others too.

The other problem we discovered was that people who were in the army, had a low salary, came back with an injury and wanted to be in a rehabilitation program would in fact receive 75% of their salary. But 75% of a low salary means an even lower salary. That was something that had to be corrected quickly, because some of those people had families to provide for. The rehabilitation program is the foundation for the new charter, whose purpose is not to keep 20-, 30- or 40-year-old injured soldiers waiting when they come back home. These soldiers have to be given the chance to rehabilitate themselves and return to civilian life. Their disabilities have to be taken into account to make sure that they can find another job, continue to thrive and be active members of society.

Our first change concerns the minimum amount that a person who comes back injured can receive while in rehabilitation, that is to say a minimum amount of $40,000. If 75% of the salary is higher than $40,000, the person will certainly be entitled to that amount. The minimum they can receive is $40,000.

The second change has to do with the permanent monthly allowance, which is similar to the old pension system. The person would receive this amount every month for life for their disability. The amount goes from $536 to $1,609. The amounts have been indexed over the past few weeks, but I am providing you with the amounts that I had. The problem we were dealing with was that practically no one was eligible for that amount. Why? Because there was an error in the old charter. It wasn't taking into account injuries that had occurred before the new charter was in place. So we are going to correct the error in the legislation. As a result, 3,500 people will be eligible for this monthly amount for life. In addition to this amount, those who cannot return to work because they have experienced serious injuries will receive $1,000 more a month. If we add all these amounts, the person who cannot return to work because of serious injuries will earn $58,000 for life. And the lump sum payment is in addition to that amount.

I would like to remind the hon. member that, when you are in the army and come back physically injured, you receive a sum of up to $250,000 from the military and a second sum of up to $276,000 from us.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

And the $276,000 is the maximum lump sum, Mr. Minister.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

That's correct.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

Excuse me, but we do have to carry on; your seven minutes have passed.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Minister, I would like to quickly add that all the organizations that have studied the bill are still saying that they want to revert to the monthly pension.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

We do have to move on to Mr. Stoffer.

You have five minutes, Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Bienvenue, Minister, and your staff. Thank you for coming.

Sir, you said that VRAB was now a distinct entity within your department. Personally, I'd like to see it extinct, to be completely frank with you, because I've yet to see the benefit of the doubt clause applied in any decision they've ever made on veterans, even though they're legislated on that. That's just a personal beef.

Second, you talked about the improvements to DVA, and yes, there are some. I've noticed improvements since 1997, as we go along. Still, in 2005 58 veterans used a Calgary food bank that's designated for just veterans, and 204 to 210 veterans used it in 2010. That's quadruple the number of veterans using a food bank in the richest city in Canada. I don't know how many other veterans are using food banks across the country, but we have a homeless situation for veterans and we have a food bank crisis for veterans. A country this rich, a country that can spend $26 million on advertising for its programs for the general public, can surely to God help veterans who are using food banks. No veteran--in fact, no person--should ever have to use a food bank, especially our veterans.

My last question is on Agent Orange. I thank you and the department for changing that date of death--I believe it was the time you took office--from February 6, 2006, if I'm not mistaken, but if you had changed the criteria from 1966-1967, that would have helped thousands of more people, which, by the way, was a Conservative promise in 2005-2006.

Regardless of that, I have specific questions for you.

Today I got a call from several veterans, who told me quite clearly that they were informed that the benefits they receive.... There are various charts. You get 5%, 10%, 17%, 40%; depending on the disability you have, there's a certain chart determining what percentage of a benefit you receive. I'm going to ask if there has been any direction from you or your department to lower the award amounts to meet the budget you have. That's question number one. When a veteran calls in, he may be entitled to 20%, but he receives 17% in order for you to meet your budget criteria.

Second, you were quoted as saying that $2 billion is going to be added to DVA. In fact, that was in a press thing this morning by Bryn Weese of Sun Media, which said that $2 billion is here in the DVA; however, the estimates show an increase of $109 million, so I was wondering if the $2 billion is accurate. Also, for how many years are we talking about the additional $2 billion?

Third, when the last Korean and World War II veteran dies, what will happen to the beds at the Perley, Camp Hill, Colonel Belcher, and Ste. Anne's hospitals? Right now we know that an awful lot of modern-day veterans have no access to those beds, so what happens to all those hospital beds and the long-term care facilities for our modern-day veterans when the last one dies?

I have many other questions for you, but I only get a few short minutes. I do thank you and your staff very much for coming.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

Thank you for your questions, Mr. Stoffer. I will ask our officials to shed some light on this matter as well.

I have never ever asked that the amounts we were giving our veterans be lowered in order to save money. Let me ask our officials: have you heard anything like that from me?

[Keith Hillier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs]

I can respond to that one with a flat no. We have never done that. The payments for our veterans are statutory, and that's why we are here sometimes for supplementary estimates (A) and (B), or, as we are today, for supplementary estimates (C).

I've been with the department for 15 years, and there has never ever been any direction to reduce, lower, or do anything with benefits to meet any budgetary targets.

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

In terms of the $2 billion—which is not, of course, in the budget, because the sum has not been approved yet by the House of Commons—the amount will be included if it is approved through a vote.

We are talking about $200 million over five years. In the Minister of Finance's accounting, since he has to keep track of the total costs, there is a mention of the $2 billion in the budget. That's what we should hear announced tomorrow.

You have probably also noticed that we want to do more to help our veterans. As a result, we are going to introduce a new measure for veterans who want to return to civilian life or who can no longer be in the military because of injuries. This measure will allow them to offer their services in the construction sector.

That's being done in the United States, and a number of our soldiers have professional skills that could be used in construction. We will try to find a way to help them to work in this sector and, of course, we will consider other options.

As to the homeless situation, I went to Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal where we have established pilot projects. I think everyone was able to see that veterans who are homeless can usually be eligible for assistance from us.

However, the hard part is for us to find them. Once we find them, we will definitely examine their files and assess the services they can receive from us. I think we can easily come to the conclusion that a homeless person is someone with difficulties in life. So our department assesses the files.

I even had the opportunity to have dinner with a homeless person who told me his life story and how his black-out happened. This man decided one day to leave the army for all kinds of reasons and ended up on the streets. He told me that, while he was in the army—you will perhaps find this story interesting—he served as a model prisoner, which had an impact on his life later, after he left the military. One day, he was working with his hands, as he was a good carpenter, and his fingers came into contact with the saw. The blood spurted on his face and everything went black.

No one wanted to look after him, and his family abandoned him. So he went into the bush near Calgary. He told me he lived in a tent for two and a half years and he cried every day. He said he cried all the time.

One day, someone from our department found him and was able to take care of him. He has now recovered and is getting all the services from our department.

It was really remarkable hearing this story, which helped me to see this man's journey. We often wonder about PTSD and we don't think it can happen just like that. In his case, it was the accident that triggered it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

We have to move on, Minister.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Mr. Chair, on a point of order, can we just get the answer on the hospitals? When the last World War II or Korean War veteran dies, what happens to those long-term beds?

[A voice]

Mr. Chair, he's way over time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

We're way over time on this particular question. I'm quite sure you could make that request to the minister.

Go ahead, Mr. Blaney.

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am very honoured to be replacing the parliamentary secretary and I thank my colleagues for having faith in me today.

I would first like to congratulate the minister for Bill C-55, which addresses many of the gaps you pointed out. I obviously think it is unfortunate, especially for our veterans, that the Liberal members of the Senate have not given their unanimous consent in order to move the bill forward as quickly as possible.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Chair, this is unfair comment. We work, as you know, in a non-partisan way. We passed Bill C-55 in one meeting, and I think it's unfair that members are using that opportunity to say things that aren't even true.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

All I can say is that we came to a--

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

It's just because you guys lie all the time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Gary Schellenberger]

That's registered on television too, I'm quite sure.

Let's just settle down here for a minute and realize that we're at an estimates meeting. I think we've heard two or three times that we're not on Bill C-55, and all we've dealt with is Bill C-55.

Please ask some questions, Mr. Blaney, and please, let's talk about the estimates. I'm quite sure the estimates will also be impacted by Bill C-55. That is where we are, and we're going to go to questions, please. We will, as a committee, make mention to the Senate that maybe they can get Bill C-55 through quickly.

Could we have a question, please?

[Steven Blaney, Conservative, Lévis—Bellechasse, QC]

Mr. Chair, I applaud your remarks and I hope that my colleague's comments will not interfere with my time.

Mr. Minister, I would also like to thank you for February 23 visit to Lévis. You came to meet with veterans in my constituency, members from the Régiment de la Chaudière and from the 6^th Field Regiment. They still tell me about it. They came to my office to see me. They were very proud and happy, especially about your open-mindedness and the fact that you agreed to answer questions after your presentation. That was greatly appreciated, and I thank you for that. This brings me to my first question.

Veterans have told me that, when they talk to employees in the department, they don't understand what the veterans have gone through. We often say that it takes a soldier to understand another soldier, especially in PTSD cases. I believe one of your priorities is to hire more military staff in the Department of Veterans Affairs. Could you first tell me about your efforts in this direction?

[Jean-Pierre Blackburn, Conservative, Jonquière—Alma, QC]

I would like to thank the hon. member.

You are right to mention that. The fact that there are not enough veterans working for our department is another area that has been criticized. Having veterans among our employees in all sectors is an asset, since they truly understand the culture of the military and of our Canadian Forces. We have started the process of hiring more veterans, and we have just appointed two veterans to the Veterans Review and Appeal Board. We have also hired Ms. Jaeger, a veteran—I don't have her exact former rank—...

[Mary Chaput, Associate Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs]

The Surgeon General of DND, Dr. Hilary Jaeger, is with us now.