Evidence of meeting #9 for Veterans Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was ombudsman.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
If it's on this point of debate, I don't know if I want to it carry on, but--
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
--I wanted to congratulate the ombudsman for maintaining non-partisanship. I wanted to make it clear to this committee that he did maintain that non-partisanship and also make it clear that it was inappropriate for the Liberal Party of Canada to invite the ombudsman to a political event.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Thank you, Mr. Storseth.
My point remains.
Now, Mr. McColeman, we're down to two minutes.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brant, ON
Yes, Mr. Chair. Thank you.
I'm trying to understand the needs-based approach from, I suppose, a business background, because I think it could be a significant contribution to the report we come up with. So I'm going to ask you to briefly comment and help me. It seems that a needs-based approach would be different for almost every individual in the needs being assessed. How do you project what those needs might be?
I mean, to me, there would obviously have to be some parameters and thresholds for awards. There would have to be different things in order to project financial responsibility on something like this. I accept your numbers in terms of the percentages of people, and I understand that you can quantify that, but to me, what would be very difficult to quantify for is the person whose needs are that they have six children who all want to go to university to get a Ph.D. How would it be for an individual who has no children and wants to do that?
In this model, I guess I'm asking you two things. One, do models for this type of system exist in other countries in terms of how their systems are set up? Two, if not, are there other models you could direct us to?
12:55 p.m.
Col Patrick Stogran
Mr. Chair, as I said earlier, as the ombudsman I'm trying to avoid getting involved in the actual fixing of the new Veterans Charter at this point. We have not investigated the approaches of other like-minded nations.
I would very briefly submit, if I may, that in terms of the needs-based approach, you can't have it both ways. It has to be either a needs-based approach or an eligibility-based approach to which you have to commit totally.
I would suggest that caseworkers on the front line really have to become case managers. They have to know the person. They have to be able to say that if you work hard enough and commit to this, they will look after you.
Conversely, they need to have the wherewithal to suggest, as I did on occasion with other veterans, that if you were in the Canadian Forces, they wouldn't tolerate this type of behaviour. Perhaps they need to have, as we have in the Canadian Forces, a recorded warning, counselling, and probation. They will no longer support you unless you clean up your act. Once again, it's tough love.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Actually, I have another committee to go to, and I know Madam Sgro has a brief request.
I'd like to thank the witnesses--
12:55 p.m.
Service Bureau Director, Dominion Command, Royal Canadian Legion
I'd like to add that Keeping the Promise had a model, a screening tool that is in place in the Province of Quebec to determine the needs.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Mr. Chair, the health care review was again raised today. Given the fact that it has an impact on the issue of needs, which is going to form part of our report, can we have somebody from the department come to address where they are with the health care review? It's going to have an impact on the charter and everything that we're doing.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
The researcher tells me that we will have witnesses who can address that on Thursday of next week.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Mr. Stogran and Mr. Allard, I want thank you very much. Thank you for testifying here and thank you for your good service to veterans.
The meeting is adjourned.
