Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2011

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

Lastly, the province will take over Ste. Anne's hospital, so our veterans will be caught up in all the problems faced by the CSSS in Gatineau and western Montreal, in particular. I think those places already have a lot of problems.

Your clinics only deal with short-term cases. Once the last Korean War veteran dies, we will have no way of offering long-term health care to our veterans.

[Suzanne Tining]

As I was saying earlier, we are negotiating with Quebec. Two basic principles underlie the negotiations. The first is priority access and maintaining the quality of services for veterans.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

How are you going to do that?

[Suzanne Tining]

We are negotiating with Quebec. The mechanisms will be put in place and funding to the province will be maintained.

[Annick Papillon, NDP, Québec, QC]

With all these 40% cuts…

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

That's the end of your four-minute round of questioning. Thank you.

Mr. Storseth for four minutes.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hillier, and Ms. Tining, for coming. It's good to see both of you again. I actually thought this was an excellent morning. The minister did an excellent job in explaining many aspects of the supplementary estimates (B), as well as in responding to a few other questions that were thrown his way.

I do want to reiterate something that I know has already been discussed and answered. I represent over 10,000 service men and women, and many veterans along with them. One of the statements made this year was regarding a reduction to veterans' benefits and the $200 million that was going to come out of veterans' benefits that Mr. Casey talked about, raising a lot of fear with many of my elderly veterans. I just want to be sure that I ask you that question.

These benefits will not be touched. Is that correct?

[Suzanne Tining]

That is correct. The minister talked about the benefits programs to veterans being quasi-statutory. What does quasi-statutory mean? It means that when a veteran qualifies for a benefit, I, as the head of the department, or the department itself, cannot say, sorry, we don't have the money for you. The money will be there. The government budget process, through supplementary estimates like the ones you have in front of you, is the mechanism for us to get that money.

We do forecast to the best of our knowledge with the best tools we have to assess how many veterans will need services and what cost that will entail for the budgetary process. But it's not an exact science. And whether the number of reassessments will be exactly what we forecast, or whether we will have exactly the number of veterans showing up for benefits that we forecast, we do need a mechanism to make adjustments. Through the supplementary estimates, that's the way we get the money.

The fundamental point is that the money is there, and we find a way through the government budgeting process, through the supplementary estimates, to get the money.

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

Thank you very much for being so clear. It seems like a horrible thing to be playing politics with.

I want to talk to you about the changes. One of the things I'm proud about regarding the new Veterans Charter is that it is a living document that has the ability to change. We've seen some of that with the lump-sum payment issue, which was a very big issue in the last Parliament.

Could you talk a little bit about the changes that have been made, not only in terms of the lump-sum payments but also the charter?

[Suzanne Tining]

The new Veterans Charter was the most fundamental change the department has done in its programming over a sixty-year period. When you go back to World War II and the Korean War, the benefits provided to veterans who came back were adjusted to their needs. Most of them were not career professionals with the Canadian Forces; most of them had volunteered to go. They came back and needed some support to reinstate their civilian lives. Over the following decades, the programs evolved with the needs of that population. There were over 1 million men who came back from World War II. There were almost 100,000 who served in peacekeeping and peacemaking missions in the seventies, eighties, and nineties.

The program evolved along with the cohort of veterans served by these programs. With modern-day conflicts, and with Afghanistan particularly, these programs were not really geared to younger, modern-day veterans coming back in their 20s and 30s with injuries, and with young families. A programming overhaul was needed not only to provide programs and services to the aging cohort of veterans, but also to provide those who needed transitioning to civilian life in mid-career with what they needed. That's why the new Veterans Charter is based on wellness and need. Those most seriously impacted by their military service will receive more support.

The Veterans Charter, with the disability award, does recognize the pain and suffering their injury or illness has created for them. It provides for rehabilitation services and, while they are in rehabilitation programs, earnings to compensate for their loss of salary, because they can't work because when undertaking full-time rehabilitation. It provides financial benefits, health benefits, and insurance for their family. A series of financial, rehabilitation, and disability awards was at the core of what the new Veterans Charter was about.

That was introduced five years ago.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

I'm sorry, Ms. Tining, but could I ask you to wind it up a bit, as we're running quite a bit over time on this one.

[Suzanne Tining]

Yes. I will go to the enhancements.

With all the best that we could do at the design stage, there were still some enhancements that were required. The three main ones were the disability award either as a lump-sum payment or by installments, should the veteran decide to do that; a $40,000 minimum wage replacement for those at the lower end of the pay scale; and increased eligibility for the permanent impairment allowance the minister talked about.

These were the main components of the enhancements.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you. I want to point out that Mr. Storseth just had the longest extension of his question of any of the members here today. I just want to get that on the record.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Brian Storseth, Conservative, Westlock—St. Paul, AB]

It was the best question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

It could have been the best question. I won't argue with that.

Mr. Genest, you have four minutes.

[Réjean Genest, NDP, Shefford, QC]

Thank you for being here today. I am pleased to have met with the minister here, at the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

I have a fairly specific question. If a veteran needs long-term care for the rest of his or her life, is it the province or the federal government that pays for that care? Who foots the bill? Is it passed off on the provinces, as usual, or does the government itself take care of it?

[Suzanne Tining]

The veterans of the traditional wars have access to contract beds, for which the Department of Veterans Affairs does pick up the tab.

Your question is specific, and my answer is that it depends on the provinces. Most of the provinces contribute part of the long-term care costs because the veterans are also residents of the provinces. But in some provinces, the full cost of care is covered by the federal government.

[Réjean Genest, NDP, Shefford, QC]

We know that, in the provinces, the quality of care for seniors is diminishing. They are lost in endless waiting lists. As some say, we let them die first before taking care of them; it's cheaper that way.

Are you going to make sure that our veterans receive the same quality of care and that they are not lost in these unimaginable waiting lists that may be one, two or even three years long? I myself waited three years for an exam, which I just got last week.

[Suzanne Tining]

I can tell you—and I'll ask Keith to add his comments—that we are working very closely with the provinces to facilitate access to care in community institutions, the contract beds and at Ste. Anne's hospital, which we are still administrating for the moment. We are also covering the costs of enhanced care for veterans who are in long-term care facilities because of their military service.

Keith?

[Keith Hillier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery, Department of Veterans Affairs]

First, let's talk about the issue of Ste. Anne's Hospital. I would expect that at the end of the day it would be no different from the other arrangements we have across the country, such as Maison Paul-Triquet in Quebec City, and the Perley and Rideau Veterans' Health Centre here.

In terms of guaranteeing access and the quality of service to veterans, it is a contractual arrangement. In addition to that, we do annual reviews of the contract, plus we have nurses who go in from time to time to ensure the quality of care, plus we have surveyors who go in to talk to the veteran or the veteran's family. So it's not just about saying, “over to you”, but it's “over to you with these conditions”.

I think veterans have been well served by places across the country such as Maison Paul-Triquet, Sunnybrook, Perley and Rideau, and the George Derby Centre.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I have a point of order.

Just for clarification, that is correct for the traditional veterans. Mr. Genest was pointing out the modern-day veterans, like the gentleman behind you. Would he have access like a traditional veteran has now? That was the point.

[Keith Hillier]

The point is that if veterans have been injured in the service of Canada, they would have access to one of our community beds across the country. If they do not have an injury related to service of Canada, as the minister indicated, they would be covered as all Canadians would be. But there would not be any additional access to community or contract beds. But as the minister noted, they would be eligible, possibly for things such as VIP, rehab, and the other programs under the Veterans Charter.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hillier.

Now over to Mr. Lobb for the last four minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to share a bit of time with Mr. Storseth at the beginning.