Evidence of meeting #25 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was national.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Conservative
Wladyslaw Lizon Conservative Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON
I just needed clarification on some things. I hope I'm understood. I did get my answers on what was unclear to me in your presentation.
Thank you, sir.
5 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
We now go to the visiting member.
Welcome, Mr. Lunney, for five minutes.
5 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I apologize to the witnesses here today that I wasn't here to hear your testimony. I have just taken over for the member who was here earlier. I'm not a regular member of this committee.
As a member for Nanaimo—Alberni, way out in the far west on Vancouver Island, we very much appreciate your service to our country. I have lots of veterans out our way. On Vancouver Island, Mr. Zimmermann is one of my constituents. On the east side of the island the average age is 55 to 57, so you can image when the school kids there.... We have a lot of retirees amongst the many veterans from across the country who have served our country.
To Mr. Leonardo, who is with us by video conference, we appreciate you representing your people by being here today.
We have an interesting opportunity with Mr. Zimmermann's expertise here. He is a member...and I know how they operate. I would like to direct a simple question to him, and then I'll go back to my colleagues, who are much better prepared and with better backgrounds to engage the rest of you in serious questions about veteran services.
Mr. Zimmermann is from the Pacific Coast University, which received a knowledge infrastructure grant during the economic action plan. He has an organization that has been recognized around the world.
Wolfgang, the international disability management credentialling organization has board members around the world now. How many nations have taken on the workers' injury credentials that your organization developed?
5 p.m.
Executive Director, National Institute of Disability Management and Research
At the moment there are about 3,000 individuals with the designation in 16 different countries. As part of the work we are doing on the agreement we signed with the International Social Security Association, the standards we developed will essentially become part of the United Nations global guidelines for best practices on return to work.
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
James Lunney Conservative Nanaimo—Alberni, BC
Mr. Zimmermann's participation there would be more germane to the new veterans coming home—I had some discussion about how to say that en français—and his expertise is making sure that people get reintegrated with adequate rehabilitation, and, where that's not possible, that accommodation is made for them in the workplace, so they can have a maximum quality of life. Of course, with my background in rehabilitation as well in my former health career, I know how important it is to get people re-engaged in the workplace.
I think, Mr. Zimmermann, you're onto something that we might want to hear here. I appreciate that Mr. Strahl brought some attention to the suggestions you mentioned in your presentation, that maybe we have something to learn from workers' compensation appeal boards, with which you've been working across the nation and around the world in helping to drive those principles, and you've been actually helping the government. There are a lot of employees off on long-term health issues.
I wonder if there's anything else you can add about how you see those services might be integrated, or we might find ways of making sure our workers get rehabilitated and back into the workplace optimally. I'm concerned, first, about the rehabilitation services that actually don't happen for physical injuries, and of course post-traumatic stress disorder is a whole other issue. Do you have something further to contribute on that file before I turn it back to my colleagues here?
5:05 p.m.
Executive Director, National Institute of Disability Management and Research
I think the only part that I would add is that I think you're absolutely right, James. The issue is for all of those more recent veterans, because ultimately you want to stay a participating member in society. You want to carry on. You want to be able to earn a decent living and support your family.
I guess what I have found really frustrating in all the years that I've dealt with Veterans Affairs is really, as I mentioned earlier, the interface between DND and Veterans Affairs, which is well known. It is also an extremely well-known fact that the longer you wait before there is an early intervention, the lower the opportunities, and the less chance of the individual ever coming back to work.
I would really strongly encourage somebody to take the leadership and ask, “What is it that we have to do?”, recognizing that we have a very clear and prescribed problem that is giving us all of these challenges and is radically contributing to our problem for all of the new veterans. Somebody needs to ask, “What do we have to do to actually solve this problem?” In my view, it would not be all that difficult.
So that would be one part that I would really strongly suggest, and say, “Look, all of the new and emerging evidence and the radically different groups of veterans require us today to take radically different steps than what we took in the past to address this challenge.” Somebody simply has to say, “Look, this is the problem. We know what the problem is, we know what the consequences are, we know the impact that we could have by taking an approach that's outside the box. Let's get on with making that happen, so that people don't pay an unnecessary price.”
5:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
Thank you, Mr. Lunney.
I'm sorry, Mr. Lobb. Mr. Lunney didn't leave you any time.
I'm going to move right on. That concludes that round. We're going to have a very abbreviated second round, because we're probably going to be running short on time.
Welcome, Mr. Gravelle. I understand you have a question.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you for being here.
I have too many questions for five minutes. I'm going to keep them short, and I'd like you to keep your answers short, if possible. My first question is for Mr. Blackwolf.
Mr. Blackwolf, do native veterans need different services because they might be living on a reserve?
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
I know this is Veterans Affairs, but would they get special help or extra help through INAC?
5:05 p.m.
President, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association
No, that was the problem. At the end of the war, when they returned back to their reserves, they came under Indian Affairs in those days, of course. Well, Indian Affairs had no programs for veterans. The mainstream of veterans came under Veterans Affairs when they came out. That was the difference, but today where they live is not that important.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Mr. Leonardo, you seem like a very young man, or maybe it's our television here that has a good picture, but can you tell me in what war or mission you served in?
5:10 p.m.
Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Veterans of Canada
Yes. I served in Yugoslavia, under UNPROFOR, back in 1993-94.
5:10 p.m.
Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Veterans of Canada
I don't really like to classify veterans in different groups. Veterans are veterans, whether they served in the Second World War or whether they served in Yugoslavia.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Okay.
My real question is this. In your vast experience dealing with veterans, can you tell us if things have changed for veterans from the Second World War to today? Have things improved, stayed the same, or gotten worse?
5:10 p.m.
Founder and Chief Executive Officer, Veterans of Canada
Thank you for that question. That's an excellent question.
Things have progressively gotten worse since the original new Veterans Charter from the Second World War, in that after the Second World War there were 69 veterans who became members of Parliament. Therefore, the programs for the Second World War and Korean veterans, later on, became great programs, such as education, help with starting their own businesses. These are programs we don't have at this present moment for our returning veterans.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Zimmermann, if you had a wish list, what could Veterans Affairs do to help disabled veterans? If you had one thing you could pick out of the sky, what would it be?
5:10 p.m.
Executive Director, National Institute of Disability Management and Research
The one part I would do is make sure I got to them early, before they have the compounding of the psychosocial issues. I would make sure I would try to intervene before six months.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
Claude Gravelle NDP Nickel Belt, ON
Thank you.
Mr. Blackwolf, if you also had a wish list and you could pick something right out of the sky to help your veterans, your native veterans, what would that be?
5:10 p.m.
President, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association
As we indicated before, we believe there should be accelerated retirement programs for people leaving the forces through disability, to give them the basic financial background, and that the services they receive from VAC, if there are any further monetary items or allowances, don't affect their basic background. That's what needs to happen.
Right now, as I said, they come under for-profit insurance, and any for-profit insurance is set up to reduce loss. So if there are any payments or any other future allowances, they affect the basic pay they get, and that ends when they're 65.
So we strongly mention to the honourable members to consider discontinuing for-profit insurance for our 90,000 soldiers and sailors and airmen.
5:10 p.m.
NDP
5:10 p.m.
President, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association
Well, there are quite a few. The Department of National Defence has a high turnover, and it has found that aboriginal people tend to stay in the forces. They tend to be loyal. As a result of that, it has brought on these programs for youth, as I mentioned before, the summer programs, Raven, Bold Eagle, Black Bear, introduced just the other year, in the east, the ALOY program, and the pre-employment program. This is producing a large intake of aboriginal youth. Of course, we actively support the Department of National Defence. We don't recruit, but we're advocates of a military career, in a sense. But this is coming under some kind of review now. We're wondering if we should curtail our youth program because of these problems if they get disabled.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
Thank you very much. That is beyond the time.
Now we go to Mr. Storseth, please.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Brian Storseth Conservative Westlock—St. Paul, AB
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
First of all, I'd like to thank everybody for coming today and for the advocacy they do on behalf of veterans.
Mr. O'Brien, I do know you have some supporters here with you. For the record, would you like to tell us who is here with you?