Veterans Affairs Committee on May 23rd, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

We will go to Mr. Casey for five minutes, please.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Bishop, welcome.

I am a member of Parliament for Charlottetown. I was one of the members of Parliament who accompanied 36 Korean War vets a month ago to Korea to commemorate the 60th anniversary. I think Neil Finney was the spokesperson there.

[John Bishop]

Doug Finney.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Doug, yes.

[John Bishop]

He's my vice-president.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

He was accompanied by his son. It was for me, sir, a real eye-opener on many levels.

I understand that you've participated in some revisits there.

There are a couple of the things that struck me. I'll share them with you and then I'll get your comments. One is the amazing progress in South Korea in the last 60 years. It's a world power, the tenth biggest economy in the world.

While the Korean conflict may be named the forgotten war, I can tell you that they didn't forget it. You can see it every day. We went from the demilitarized zone in the north right down to Busan and points in between. The reception that your colleagues got was heartwarming, and not just from political and military folk. When they were wearing the medals and the blazer that you have today, people recognized and realized that they were part of the UN forces that were there 60 years ago. We had school kids lined up clapping for the buses when they went by. While some of your colleagues may feel a certain amount of disrespect, the Koreans certainly don't feel that way. Those were a couple of the things that really struck me. I wanted to say that because I did have the honour of participating in that delegation.

The matter at hand, sir, is clawbacks. You correctly identified that the reason we're discussing these amendments is because of a lawsuit that was brought by Dennis Manuge in Halifax, who fought tooth and nail with the government over five years and eventually won. As a result of that, there are some changes being made, but there are only some changes being made. This stops certain clawbacks, but there are some that continue.

I realize that you say your organization would be happy to see an end to the clawbacks that are set out in the War Veterans Allowance Act and the Pension Act, but there are other amounts being clawed back. Can we go further? Should we do more?

[John Bishop]

Thank you very much.

There is no question that Korean progress is unbelievable. I can remember going to Korea in 1950-51 and most Koreans lived in little shacks with straw roofs or in mud huts. As a matter of fact, when we helped retake Seoul in about February 1951, it was quite unbelievable. There was only one bridge across the Han River at that time, and I think there are now 37. The progress is unbelievable and it really makes you think.

For example, my grandson went back—I didn't select him to go back, he was selected by a committee—and he even spent six days walking along the DMZ with the Korean army. It was quite interesting. When he got home to Canada he called me and said, “Grandpa, you know what? Seoul is a more modern city than Toronto.” He had lived in Toronto for a while, but there is no questioning the change.

For example, when we helped retake Seoul, because of casualties and people leaving, the population was 10,000. Today the population of greater Seoul, like greater Vancouver, is 20 million. As I kidded the Koreans, I said, “You're pretty good at one thing”.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[John Bishop]

That's all I'll say on that because I don't want to spend a lot of time.

Getting back to the clawback, etc., as you can appreciate, my knowledge is very limited when it comes to the legal things that are happening. But I think the big thing should be whether the injury that person may have been suffering from for years and had never reported, or which has now come to a head, was caused because of his Korean War service.

I could go on for half an hour telling you things about people who were wounded, etc., and have things wrong with them and they have never even claimed it. I couldn't get a pension for my hearing loss until I had retired from the forces. They just wouldn't give it to me, and then all of a sudden they said, “yes, there is no question, your medical documents prove that.” But it hadn't been listened to before that. So I think we should listen and ask: is this attributable to wartime service? Is it unfair in relation to some of the clawbacks that may still be going on?

One thing I should mention again is kidney problems. A very astute doctor said that the only thing that could have caused that damage to your kidneys is rather poor treatment of your kidneys, which is a problem that only happens overseas.

I don't know if that answers your question or not.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bishop.

Now we'll go to Mr. Lobb, please.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to Mr. Bishop for your years of service, decades of service, really.

First, I would like to share my time with Mr. O'Toole, who will go first.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Lobb.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have stolen one minute from my colleague just to thank you, Mr. Bishop, for your engaging presentation and for your service. Your CD with two clasps shows you've given more than 30 years to our country.

I have to say that when I left the forces and joined my Branch 178 of the Royal Canadian Legion, in Bowmanville, it was two of your members, Art Daigle and Jim Armstrong, from KVA Unit 11 in Oshawa, who helped welcome me as a new member of the branch. I used to do Remembrance Day every week.

I just want to put on the record that your organization is an important one. They give a bursary to students in our area. It's truly amazing how your veterans have continued to serve, so thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Mr. O'Toole, since Mr. Hayes has only used three and a half minutes, I'll take it off his time and we'll leave Mr. Lobb with five minutes.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you.

My first question is in regard to the changes and the enhancements to the funeral and burial program. I just wonder if you can shed some light and give us your thoughts as to what the enhancement might do for some of your colleagues.

Also, just give us an idea of the number of colleagues of yours whose families actually have had to use the program for their funeral.

[John Bishop]

That is a difficult question because every individual is different. For example, thanks to my wife who just retired not too long ago, we have a plan where it's all covered. We even have our burial plots organized for the island. But there are a lot of veterans who were not successful when they came back. Some don't even have pensions. They don't even have any assistance.

The big thing that you mentioned is that if a person has no income and all his relatives have passed away, or his children live a long way away—there are a lot of children because of circumstances....their families don't even talk to them anymore—it's very difficult for them to be looked after.

When you look at somebody who has passed away, who was a Korean veteran, look very carefully at his financial situation and help him. A lot of people don't need any help and don't want any help, but some need assistance, there's no question about it. They should be helped, in my opinion.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I have another question, not necessarily directly related to Bill C-60. Could I get your opinion on the changes we made to the veterans independence program over a year ago? There are two semi-annual allocations instead of consistently submitting your invoices for reimbursement.

What are your members comments on it? Do they think that it's a positive change?

[John Bishop]

You're talking about the VIP?

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

VIP.

[John Bishop]

I'm on the VIP, so I'm familiar with it.

For some reason, I still have to submit my receipts. Talking to other veterans—I guess in the transition period—they're still demanding the receipts. The thing I find with that program is.... For example, I have a wood-electric furnace. They won't even tolerate cleaning the chimney because it's not one of the things that's in. Looking after the garden, I have an acre of land, unfortunately. I get that looked after as far as cutting grass, etc. A housekeeper also comes in once or twice a month to really muck the house out.

There's no question that some of the veterans that I know—I know three or four in the Victoria unit—just found the whole thing so difficult, they packed it in and said, “the hell with it”. Filling out the request, the VIP application, and getting all the receipts is just a pain when they're in their eighties or getting up to 90.

Now, of course, they're saying they're going to get an allowance. I suppose what they're doing is saying, “You spent $1,200 or $1,500 last year. We're going to take that, divide it in half, and give it to you in the first six months and the other half in the next six months.” They submit it. I don't know how it's working yet.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Is there any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

You have 45 seconds.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

I guess my time has run short here. I would just like to thank you again for your service. I often find when we have people such as yourself come to committee it really does honestly provide a lot of interesting comments on your experience, and also real first-hand experience of how government programs, through veterans affairs, either work or don't work, or could be enhanced.

Thank you for taking the time to come out here.

[John Bishop]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

By the way, it's a shame Mr. Lobb doesn't live closer. He'd love to work your acre with his little tractor. He's too far away.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have five minutes.