Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2011

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Okay, folks, we're at the magic time.

We have three sets of witnesses today, and we also have a business session of 30.... We'll go through the first four questioners--NDP, Conservative, Liberal, Conservative--plus the introductory time of the guests. That takes the 30 minutes...pretty much there, if everybody's in agreement.

You can work out amongst yourselves who's going to ask the questions; the next will be the same; and the last will be the same. Then we'll go into business.

I want to start by saying good morning and welcome, gentlemen. It's nice to have you here.

We're starting the first round with our Brigadier Barry Le Grys....

Yes, Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, just in the spirit of collegiality, we have two outstanding members over there on the member of Parliament's soccer team, Mr. Daniel and Mr. Lizon.

Mr. Lizon scored two goals against team Ukraine and became the most valuable player of our team. I just thought we should give it up for Mr. Lizon. He had a great game for us.

Thank you very much.

[Applause]

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

The good news for the government side is that this comes off his time.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.

To the witnesses, you can already get the gist that we're a collegial group here.

I started to welcome you, Brigadier Le Grys. We'll start with your presentation, if you wouldn't mind.

The way we do this, gentlemen, is that we give a half-hour session for each. We start with your ten-minute presentation and then we go to the questions from the members.

Thank you for coming this morning. Please go ahead.

[Brigadier Barry Le Grys, Defence Adviser, British High Commission]

Okay.

I'm not 100% sure I've got the exam question totally right, but I think you're after commemorative activities in the 21st century for veterans.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Yes, that's pretty accurate.

[Brigadier Barry Le Grys]

Okay, good. Then I have the right things to say, I hope.

I'd better give you a general overview. Obviously, as defence adviser I'm more a master of the general than the details. I couldn't really go into specific technical details, but I hope I can give you a good overview.

The mainstay in terms of commemorative celebrations for us are hinged around November 11, Remembrance Day, and usually the closest Sunday. There'll be events all over the country, centred upon memorials usually, and from community to national level.

The Royal British Legion and regimental associations are more often than not the key enablers at all of these events. Indeed, the Royal British Legion is the nation's custodian of remembrance.

London usually provides the premier events, such as a Saturday evening event on the memorial weekend in the Royal Albert Hall; on November 11 itself, services at the cenotaph and silence in Trafalgar Square; and cathedral services on the Sunday in cathedral and abbey.

Outside of Remembrance Day commemorations themselves is what we call Armed Forces Day. It's a relatively new event in the last three years. A different city hosts this day each year. It was Edinburgh this year, and it'll be Plymouth next year. It's a day of remembering and recognizing the armed forces of past and present. It's supported across the country by similar local events on the same day with the same theme. But there is a particular city designated to be the flagship for it.

Throughout the year, we have what we would term our all-year-round centre of remembrance, which is our National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire. This is a memorial site. It has many memorials within it, and events are sponsored there by charities, institutions, and organizations at will throughout the year. The theme there is very much one of remembrance.

Surrounding all of that, the services, ships, regiments, units, bases, are at will to commemorate specific battles or honours as their traditions advocate. I would rarely put these on a national celebration level, although you might place the Royal Air Force remembrance of the Battle of Britain at Westminster Abbey, for example, as counting as a national-level commemoration.

But indeed, we had our last official bespoke remembrance of the D-Day landing, for example, at a national level with MOD sponsorship, so anything that is done there is done very much at an independent organization or community level.

The conceptual underpinning for commemorating the work of the armed forces in the U.K. is the Armed Forces Covenant. I have brought a copy along with me, for you. It's been refreshed by the current government as recently as May this year, and it's an understanding of responsibilities between the people of the United Kingdom, the government, and the armed forces, and that's armed forces past and present.

The armed forces community within that covenant is defined as “serving personnel, families, veterans, and bereaved”; and “recognition”, as a term, lies within the scope of the covenant and is very much a key goal. The armed forces community is entitled to appropriate recognition for the unique service given and the unlimited liability of the service person and what they assume. In return and in addition to that unlimited liability in the armed forces, the armed forces personnel themselves have responsibilities to fulfill--for example, upholding the standards and values of their respective services, as laid down in the covenant as well.

The Secretary of State for Defence reports against the covenant every year to Parliament, and supporting the covenant will be a number of actions the government wishes to advocate, that it wishes to achieve in the forthcoming year as part of it. One specific step, for example, following from the covenant this year, has been the community covenant grant scheme, the aim of which is to support projects financially at the local level, which strengthens the ties between the civilian community and that wider armed forces community that I talked of earlier.

That really ends my introduction. What I've done there is described to you the covenant, which is the underpinning conceptual piece for recognition and our mainstay commemorative events at a national level.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much. We're not used to witnesses coming in under time quite like that, so we have to scramble now.

I'll go to the NDP, and I understand Ms. Mathyssen wants to start.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Yes, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much for your presentation.

I was particularly interested in your reference to the covenant that you have in regard to not just veterans of the past, but to, I assume, modern-day veterans who have been on various missions and to those who are currently serving, and the fact that the community of veterans or of service personnel are entitled to recognition and unlimited liability.

Some of the concerns we have here in regard to how we serve our veterans and CF personnel have to do with the services that they receive. Under your covenant, do you have responsibility to make sure that there's appropriate medical care, that there are no homeless veterans, for example, or veterans forced into using food banks? That's one of the real problems we have here, and I'm very concerned about that.

So what does your covenant entail? Are there problems? If not, how do you make sure that veterans or service personnel don't run into the kinds of problems we have here in Canada?

[Brigadier Barry Le Grys]

A key principle of the covenant is that the armed forces community should not be at a disadvantage to the civilian community, but nor does it place them in a position of advantage, either.

For veterans, if you take the example of medical care, that is provided by the National Health Service. They should receive the same service as everybody else in the civilian community.

Where their need for the National Health Service is a direct result of their military service, then indeed there may be some form of prioritization and particular attention to making sure they get that care--ahead of the queue, if necessary, perhaps. But there isn't, if you like, any intent behind the covenant to place veterans at a specific advantage at all. It's to make sure that everybody's treated equally, but veterans recognized for their service given.

Veterans, for example, would receive recognition and gratitude, positive measures to prevent disadvantage, and indeed whatever financial packages by way of pensions or disability pensions and so forth that they may be entitled to.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you.

Are there instances of veterans who are homeless or who are dependent on food banks that you know of?

[Brigadier Barry Le Grys]

Yes, unfortunately, and we work very hard; both the Ministry of Defence and charities such as the Royal British Legion, Combat Stress, and others look particularly at the homeless in London, for example. We work with those, as does the Soldiers' Charity, again, to try to negate those difficulties.

But to say that those problems don't exist would be wrong, because they do, I'm afraid.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

So it's a universal situation that we simply must address.

[Brigadier Barry Le Grys]

Yes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

What role does the monarchy play in remembrance?

[Brigadier Barry Le Grys]

It's twofold, I suppose. Many of them are veterans. The Duke of Edinburgh is a prime example. Also, they are the figurehead of the state and the state's recognition of service. Their physical presence will be there at key memorial events, without doubt. Indeed, some of them are serving. There's another point there where, again, their presence is particularly important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

You're pretty close to your time, Ms. Mathyssen. If you have a real snapper, you can go.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Actually, we're good.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

We'll turn to Mr. Lobb for five minutes, thank you.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Thank you.

I have two questions.

First, with the two recent conflicts that Britain's been involved in, have you experienced an increase in the public's participation in remembrance and commemoration?

[Brigadier Barry Le Grys]

Yes. I think that's fair to say.

It's not just in terms of commemoration events around November 11, but also around repatriation ceremonies at what is now Royal Wootton Bassett, for example, and Armed Forces Day, which is the event that has come into being over the last three years, as I mentioned earlier. I would say the public's engagement and appreciation have gone up considerably in recent years as a result of ongoing conflicts.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

In this world now of Facebook and Twitter and everything else for the world's youth, how has that changed the way in which commemoration and remembrance have evolved in Great Britain?

[Brigadier Barry Le Grys]

Organizations and charities such as the Royal British Legion use that social media to get their message across. They promote schools' familiarization and learning packages and within that they'll use certain aspects of social media to attract youngsters. It's another way of moving messages around.

I think those engaged in supporting veterans and promoting veterans affairs are fully aware of modern social media. Whether that social media has had a specific impact other than perhaps the way they spread their messages, I'm not so sure. Nothing comes to mind as an example.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

In your world travels and in talking with colleagues from other countries and comparing notes and best practices, is there any one thing that you think Great Britain does that sets itself apart from what the rest of the world does as far as remembrance and commemoration are concerned? Obviously in this committee we're trying to find best practices or innovative ideas, so if you have any, we'd appreciate hearing about them.