Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 25th, 2014

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Okay, folks. We'll get this meeting under way. I want to remind everybody that we're continuing our study on the review of the enhanced new Veterans Charter. We have welcomed several witnesses and will continue to do so in this process.

Today we are very pleased to have with us Tim Laidler, executive director of the Veterans Transition Network, and also, of course, Ron Griffis, who has been here a few times from the Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping.

Welcome, both of you.

I think it has been explained that we're going to hear from both of you and then we're going to do the rounds of questions. We have 10 minutes for each of you for your introductory comments.

Have you decided which one of you will go first?

Ron, it's good to see you. Please begin.

[Ronald Griffis, National President, Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping]

Thank you.

Veterans, honoured guests, and honourable members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, I bring you greetings from Canada's pre-eminent peacekeeping veterans organization, the Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping. Thank you for inviting our organization to appear before this honourable committee.

My comments to this honourable committee are a synopsis of suggestions and information that I have received as a result of seeking guidance and input from our members and their families located within our 28 chapters across Canada.

I would like to also point out that I was a member of the original New Veterans Charter Advisory Group under the chair of Muriel Westmorland. Our final report, “Honouring Our Commitment to Veterans and Families, The Living Charter in Action”, was submitted to the government on June 15, 2009. To date, very little progress has been accomplished after the submission of this excellent report.

We are fully aware that Veterans Ombudsman Guy Parent has already appeared before this honourable committee. In principle, we support the testimony and presentation by our Veterans Ombudsman. He touched all the required bases.

We also support a letter and opinion dated November 15, 2013, that was sent to the Minister of Veterans Affairs, the Honourable Julian Fantino, as put forth by the Veterans Consultation Group, a group of 20 veterans organizations that meet on a regular basis to discuss matters of mutual interest pertaining to veterans and their families. Our organization participated in preparing the findings, as mentioned in this letter. A copy of this letter is attached to my presentation.

Item one in this letter indicates that the earnings loss benefit, ELB, must be improved to provide 100% of pre-release income, to continue for life, and include increases for projected career earnings for the Canadian Armed Forces members, for example, indexed.

Item two indicates that the maximum disability award must be increased consistent with what is provided to injured civilian workers who received general damages in law court.

Item three describes the current inequity with respect to the earnings loss benefit for class A and class B—that's less than 90 days—reservists for service attributable injuries. That must cease.

Another item that was emphasized in the report presented by Ms. Westmorland was families, in particular, caregivers, wives, or spouses. It is particularly embarrassing that the government completely ignored this part of a veteran's life. Without question, the caregiver, spouse, and/or wife has been treated with disrespect and forgotten, to say the least.

Many partners of armed forces veterans have given up countless opportunities with respect to education and employment to be a military spouse. Their spiritual growth and their ability to be gainfully employed with opportunities for meaningful advancement in a field of their choice and/or to participate in higher education are hampered by their loyalty to their spouse.

An extremely interesting and revealing book, Hurry Up and Wait: An Inside Look at Life as a Canadian Military Wife, written by Dianne Collier and published by Creative Bound books in Carp, Ontario, provides an in-depth and very realistic look at military life as a spouse, and of course by extension, as the spouse of a retired veteran.

Without question, it is accepted in today's Canadian economy that to have a successful financial household requires two people—husband and spouse or husband and wife—working outside the home and participating in meaningful employment. If a veteran is on one of the many programs sponsored by Veterans Affairs Canada and a spouse is the main stay-at-home caregiver, there is absolutely no way that the spouse, or for that matter, the veteran, can participate in programs that will support and enhance future financial responsibilities as well as save for retirement.

The Veterans Ombudsman's report is quite clear on the pitfalls of becoming injured while serving Canada, and if the spouse is a main caregiver, it is respectfully suggested that they are destined to live a life under or at the accepted level of poverty in Canada.

Spouses of Canadian Forces members are treated like second-class citizens in that, being loyal to their spouse who was a serving Canadian Forces member, they are prohibited, by reason of their geographical location, from earning a decent living or securing an advanced education. If the spouse of the Canadian Forces member were permitted to obtain a higher education, they would be able to secure employment that would permit them to move along with their spouse and to transfer that education and employment to the new postings.

Many occupations are transferable: accountant, nurse, police officer, social worker, dental professional, administrator, and psychology and business persons and the like. If a veteran or severely injured Canadian Forces member is to retire or live a life as a contributing member of a community, they must be able to see a light at the end of the tunnel that is not a flickering candle.

I respectfully suggest that now is the time to make changes to the new Veterans Charter. In the past, several well-meaning and respected expert advisory groups have submitted well over 200 suggestions on how to improve the new Veterans Charter. With all due respect, there's been little movement from the government. Please make the necessary suggested improvements to the new Veterans Charter and give the veterans of Canada the proper care, support, and compensation they deserve and are entitled to.

Among the persons I contacted with respect to seeking advice on this particular appearance were Gloria and Ed Blizzard of Wilmot, Nova Scotia. They fall into the exact category that I have just referred to. Mr. Blizzard is not very well. When he passes away, Mrs. Blizzard, if she's still remaining, will experience difficulties. Their case is just one among the many, many, many cases of veterans who will experience difficulty.

With that submission, I respectfully submit this particular report. Thank you very much for your attendance.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Griffis.

I should point out that we didn't have either report at the time to be able to circulate them. We will get the reports and have them translated, and all members of the committee will receive copies. We're only getting it verbally today. I just wanted to point that out to people. Thank you very much.

Mr. Laidler, please.

[Tim Laidler, Executive Director, Veterans Transition Network]

Thank you, everyone, for having me here.

I appreciate that the government is taking the time to review the new Veterans Charter. In my position as the executive director of the Veterans Transition Network, as a veteran myself who served in Afghanistan, and somebody who's gone through some of the operational stress injuries and come out the other side of the system, there are definitely some improvements that could be made along the way.

That being said, I also want to highlight some of the success stories and encourage some of the good parts of the new Veterans Charter that should be maintained. I hope the entire legislation is not completely thrown out, because our program did start in 1997 and as our clinicians can attest, and they've asked me to mention here today, there were a lot of complaints about the Pension Act as well. I just want to make that clear from the outset.

To best inform the committee, I want to talk a little bit about myself and where I'm coming from, and my experiences and the veterans whom I do speak on behalf of, who've been through my program.

I deployed to Afghanistan in 2008. I was 22 years old and my job was to guard supply convoys through Kandahar City to the forward operating bases in the region. It was one of the more stressful and dangerous jobs, obviously.

However, I can say without a doubt that when I was in Afghanistan, there were no feelings of fear or trepidation about taking on these missions. There was no requirement for an officer to order me or my colleagues to do this mission. We were young and gung-ho, and we wanted to go and take that risk. That's what we had trained for; that's why we joined the Canadian Forces. This was an asset to us and I think it's what made us effective on the battlefield, our willingness to take those risks, to engage the enemy.

The one story I reference for myself is a time we had to recover a crashed aerial vehicle that had gone down in the middle of nowhere and it required us to drive through a minefield. It was an old Russian minefield. There were numerous exploded Afghan vehicles all around this path through the minefield which they had pretty much created by guessing and testing. We were very well aware that anytime there was a big rainfall it would move the mines around. I was in the lead vehicle and there was a really good chance we were going to hit a mine on that mission, but not once did I stop to think that I could possibly die.

I bring this up just to highlight the level of emotional suppression that's required to be effective in the military. This is something that is also common in other trades and populations in Canada. If you think of police forces or high finance, some of these super stressful situations require people to change the way their body has evolved to react emotionally.

Now when we bring somebody who's gone through that experience back here to Canada, putting a label of post-traumatic stress disorder onto that person is not sufficient. It doesn't nearly capture the complexity of the issue the person's going through. The majority of the veterans—we've now had over 400 come through our program—are in this category of dealing with this sort of new way of dealing with emotional expression, changing from the way they were successful in places like Afghanistan, and how they're going to now be successful here in Canada.

The way this relates to the new Veterans Charter is that one of the requirements coming into a lot of the benefits is that somebody obtained a PTSD diagnosis or they have a medical release from the military. One of the recommendations I'll make at the end has to do with addressing this issue, because it's real when we look at the statistics that currently only 14% of veterans, of those who actually served in the forces, come to Veterans Affairs for services. The majority of people coming through our program have never gone to the government for services. We've all heard a lot about the stigma issues, especially with mental health, as being one of the contributing factors. There's also the issue that it's bureaucratically difficult to get your claims processed.

Again, I think there are some very positive strong points, like the earnings loss benefit that does allow people to get funded to go back to school, and the up to $75,000 they can get for that retraining. That's an amazing program. It's just difficult to access for somebody who's trepidatious about coming forward for help, aware there is a lot of anger in the community, and that there are never enough services for them. That also causes a barrier that there is this image that the government is not doing enough.

To take a step back into the Veterans Transition Network, the organization that I run, we deliver a 10-day program that helps these men and women who are in that in-between place. They haven't got the full diagnosis for post-traumatic stress disorder or depression, or one of the other mental health issues, and therefore, they do not often qualify for counselling or the other programs. They will come to our program first and they will get a chance to check in with themselves.

It's group-based, peer to peer. They'll get a sense of where they are, and to see how their peers are doing with it. Many of them do go on to access other services. The peer reviewed research we present every year at CIMVHR shows that our program does have a positive impact on their PTSD and depression scores. We are now evaluating quality of life as well.

Just as I talk about it, I want to take a moment to thank this committee, because it was this committee that helped us get federal funding in 2012. I had the privilege of presenting here in December 2011, and 11 months later we were a federally funded national organization. This committee should take credit for that, and it shows that working within the system does produce results.

This is where I come to my final points on the recommendations.

The one I've alluded to is to find some way to overcome the requirement for veterans to have a mental health or physical disorder in order to access benefits. The one area I've heard much talk about among our community is a Canadian GI bill, something that would target those veterans who are most vulnerable to issues like post-traumatic stress or other mental health issues, those who served in combat in places like Afghanistan or Bosnia when it was really difficult. We know statistically that they are predisposed to have issues around mental health and to have social issues about getting back into the workforce.

If we could get some sort of GI bill like the Americans have that qualify those people for schooling and re-education, regardless of whether they have an injury or not, that would go a long way to reintegrating our population of veterans, catching them early on before they are five, six, or ten years out and have been dealing with problems and they're finally at a point where it's a crisis and they need an intervention from the medical community.

The last point I'll make is around the issues with the Veterans Review and Appeal Board. This is a very psychologically distressing experience for many veterans, and often when they come into our program we have to spend time processing some of their feelings around it. It often isn't the content; it's just the way they're handled. They feel like they're asking for a handout, like they're actually fighting and sort of begging for their rights. This runs counter to the military ethos of self-sufficiency and competency. If something could be done to address that issue, I think it would be a huge help. I would suggest removing that from the system altogether and allowing the veterans to go to the court to resolve their disputes that way.

That's my presentation. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much, Mr. Laidler. We appreciate it.

Before we go to our committee, I want to say welcome to all the veterans and guests who have joined us today. We appreciate your being here and participating.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Point of order, chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Mr. Karygiannis.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Which one of the government members is filling in? I count seven.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Yes, one doesn't have a voting privilege.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Who would that be?

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

It would be Mr. Chisu.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

He's just staying out of interest.

This doesn't come out of your time, by the way, Mr. Chicoine. You have seven minutes, please.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Terribly sorry, six minutes.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Six minutes, okay.

[Jim Karygiannis, Liberal, Scarborough—Agincourt, ON]

Point of order, Chair.

I asked a legitimate question. If Mr. Galipeau has a problem with it, I'd appreciate not hearing his comments. My question was I just wanted to clarify which one of the members had voting rights.

Now, if Mr. Chisu took it upon himself to leave, and Mr. Galipeau wants to make comments, well, that's really not appreciated.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Rather than interfere with the witnesses any further, we will allow the committee to start asking questions.

Thank you very much.

Mr. Chicoine, please.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Thanks again, Mr. Chair.

Above all, I want to thank the witnesses for joining us and for participating in our review of the Enhanced New Veterans Charter Act. Your presence is greatly appreciated.

Mr. Laidler, you introduced a program through the Veterans Transition Network. People are saying that the program is very effective. Thank you for all of the efforts you have invested in this area. I hope you will continue your good work.

Unless I am mistaken, your group developed this program in cooperation with the Wounded Warriors and True Patriot Love organizations to provide veterans—especially those from Ontario, British Columbia and the Maritimes—with access to resources. However, it appears that the program is not available in Quebec.

I would like you to tell us what steps we need to take and what resources—financial or other—you would require to make that excellent program accessible from coast to coast to coast, including in Quebec. I think it's unfortunate that the program is currently unavailable.

[Tim Laidler]

Thank you for the question about the funding for the program and its ability to expand into Quebec.

You are correct. We started with funding from the Royal Canadian Legion in B.C., and then we expanded nationally with help from the Dominion Command of the Royal Canadian Legion, represented here today, with $500,000 that coincided with the federal government's funding. From that, Wounded Warriors and True Patriot Love have also sponsored the funding for our programming, capturing that percentage of veterans who fall through the gaps between their services and DND and VAC.

I'm excited to say today that True Patriot Love gave us an extra $50,000 last year to build our clinical capacity in French so we could deliver our programs in Quebec completely in French. We plan to run two training programs in Quebec this year. Provided the outcome is positive, that the clinicians are able to meet our high threshold of quality, they will be delivering programs by the end of the year in Quebec in French.

I'd also like to say that we will be training women clinicians at that time to deliver this program, to run an all-women's program, because we do gender specific counselling.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Thank you for those clarifications.

Do you need additional funding such as for translating the website, which is currently available only in English? Do you need additional resources, or are you okay for now?

[Tim Laidler]

Yes, I think the additional funding from True Patriot Love will meet the need to deliver it in French. The ongoing funding requirement and the agreement we have with the government is that they will pay per client. We will need the ongoing support. All indications are positive that will continue for Veterans Affairs. We are also working with the Department of National Defence to see if we can integrate our program into the services they offer military personnel.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Thank you for the clarifications, Mr. Laidler.

I have some questions for Mr. Griffis. Thank you for joining us.

Your organization represents members of the Canadian Forces who have participated in peacekeeping missions. A vital component of those deployments was the presence of many reservists. My questions will focus on how reservists are treated.

Do you think it is unfair that the earnings loss benefit is $2,700 for everyone? Shouldn't that benefit be based on the real earnings instead?

[Ronald Griffis]

If I understand the question correctly, sir, we think that the earnings loss benefit and the permanent impairment allowance should be awarded to the vet, to the reservist, to the same extent as they are awarded to the full-time member of the armed forces.

[Sylvain Chicoine, NDP, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

So it is somewhat unfair that the amount is set at $2,700. That is unjust compared with how much regular force veterans receive, as their amount is based on their earnings. Did I understand correctly?