Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 25th, 2014

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you. You will forgive me for making this decision this afternoon to ask him questions.

Mr. Laidler, if memory serves me right, when you last appeared before this committee, the Veterans Transition Network was planning to expand its scope to include all of Canada. The Department of Veterans Affairs helped fund that initiative.

Could you tell us about the growth and the implementation of that national program?

[Tim Laidler]

When I was here two years ago, we were only running about four programs a year. This year we're on track to run fourteen, so it has grown threefold. We were successful in securing the seed capital from the private sector with organizations like True Patriot Love, Wounded Warriors, and the Royal Canadian Legion, and now have ongoing funding with the federal government. It is a success story.

I'll just say that we see veterans coming through now and opening up for the first time. Different parts of the country have asked why this wasn't here before. The truth of the matter is that, as Canadians, we didn't know.

This is an innovation that came out of one our top universities. I think it's something that we should be proud of, but it's not something which, as Canadians, we should be mad at ourselves for not having done before. As you said, I think Canada has been very cautious about what conflicts it engages in. As a consequence of this, we're not like the Americans, who have an institutionalized system for their veterans. This is something that comes up and is new for Canadians, and we've innovated as best we can, I think.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

I have three other short questions.

Has the Royal Canadian Legion promoted this initiative across the country?

[Tim Laidler]

Absolutely.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Tell me about the demand for the program. Have you been able to meet the demand?

[Tim Laidler]

The demand has been.... It exists. It's difficult to get the individuals to come forward. Most veterans we meet with will say, “I know three buddies who really need this program, but I'm okay”, and after a little work, they tend to come into the program themselves.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

On this, my last question, you can burn the clock answering it if you want.

Where do you see the future of the Veterans Transitions Network heading?

[Tim Laidler]

I see it in two ways. We want to get to a program that's running 25 programs across the country, for both men and women and in both official languages. Our goal is to hit at least 2,000 veterans to go through our program.

A spinoff of this has been a pickup from Movember. The same professors who created our program were funded by the Movember movement for $2.7 million to create the same program for the general population. They saw the significant impacts we were having. They saw that it wasn't just about combat trauma and stress, but actually about general social issues that we were helping to fix. It now has become something which hopefully, the Canadian public will start to benefit from.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

I'm sure your parents are very proud of the work you're doing.

[Tim Laidler]

Thank you.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

I thank you for what you've done. I thank you for what you're doing on behalf of veterans today.

Thank you very much.

[Tim Laidler]

Thanks.

I just want to respond to the comment about going to Afghanistan, because I know you voted to send me there, but I volunteered and I went willingly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

He's not only in service, but he is selflessly in service.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Yes. Thank you, Mr. Galipeau.

You're well under your time if you have any other questions.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

I'll share it with Mr. O'Toole.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Okay.

You have a little over a minute.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Thank you to my learned colleague.

I thought I wasn't going to ask you a question, Mr. Laidler, but could you share with the committee your thoughts—

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

This is an afternoon decision now. Be careful.

[Erin O'Toole, Conservative, Durham, ON]

Yes, it is an afternoon decision.

Could you share with us your thoughts on how your program, the VTN—it was VTP, but now that it's national, it's VTN—is one of several ways that mental health or OSI issues can be addressed?

Do you find that some veterans work well in a typical counselling session, like this clinical psychologist area, but that others take to a program like yours because of the peer support or because of the return element, the going back into your environment? I'd love your comments. Is it fair to say that there is no one solution for veterans, that we need a few services, including a new program like yours?

[Tim Laidler]

Absolutely. Our program is not the silver bullet. It's not the one program. We'd be foolish to think that for somebody who's seriously suffering from a mental issue and coming through our program, which is ten days broken up over three months. It will definitely help them, but it will not cure their post-traumatic stress. Many of them will go on to see individual therapists and continue that work, again, provided by the government, if they are clients of Veterans Affairs and whatnot.

Another great service, in light of the recent suicides, is the 1-800 hotline. We've had participants coming through our program and getting to a point where they were starting to feel suicidal. They called that number and actually were talked down by the counsellor on the line. Then they were able to call one of our clinicians and we were able to intervene. That's just one example of many. It definitely saved a life in that case.

We're not the panacea, but we're helping to give people a boost, whether they're coming into counselling for the first time, or they've been doing it for years, or they're somewhere in the middle.

[The Chair, Conservative, Greg Kerr]

Thank you very much.

Madame Moore, for six minutes.

[Christine Moore, NDP, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Earlier, we talked about people who have sort of fallen between the cracks. Today, I want to tell you about two cases where individuals found themselves in limbo, so to speak.

The first case is that of Éric Aubé, one of my friends, who recently contacted me to tell me his story. Éric and I served together as warrant officers with the 52nd Field Ambulance. He told me that he had participated in Operation Cavalier in 1992 and that, although he was held hostage for 22 days, everything went well and he was safe and sound. However, after he was injured for the first time in 24 years of service, he was shown the door. Éric hurt himself while going through the obstacle course.

This story illustrates the issues reservists face when they injure themselves in training. As they are not on a mission, they are not considered to be regular force members. They often receive no compensation, or are given compensation that does not take into account their job outside the armed forces.

Let's take the example of a police officer who, when available, works in the reserve force. Let's say they suffer a permanent injury during training that prevents them from working not only as a military member in the reserve force, but also as a police officer. They lose both sources of income, and receive no compensation from their civilian job. They lose an income that can be fairly significant. It is not uncommon for individuals to serve in the reserve force even if they earn one third of their civilian income, simply because they like serving. Those people are penalized if they injure themselves while on reserve duty, since they are not compensated for the loss of their civilian income.

The second case I would like to tell you about and get your comments on took place while I was an officer cadet. We had a twin course provided in English. Although both groups were competitive, no one wanted anyone from the other group to get hurt. Unfortunately, one day during a training session, a young man who was barely 20 years old and had been in the armed forces for only 4 weeks, jumped over a wall and fell head first. He became a paraplegic. That young officer cadet probably would have earned a substantial income after a certain number of years. After that accident, he was unlikely to be gainfully employed over the next 45 years, even if he received rehabilitation services. What kind of compensation could be provided to that officer cadet who was probably earning the same wages as I was, $1,300 a month? That humble income we were receiving was barely above the poverty line at the time.

I would like to hear your comments on those two cases and to see whether something should be done to remedy those kinds of issues, which are fairly frequent.

[Ronald Griffis]

I appreciate your point of view with respect to what you have said. I respectfully suggest that they should have received compensation. There should be special allowances for items of that nature.

I gather from your comments that you're talking about RMC or CMR. My son is a graduate of RMC. He presently is a recipient of a Veterans Affairs pension for PTSD. My granddaughter is a second-year student at RMC. If she is injured in the obstacle course—and perhaps that's what you're referring to, where the gentleman received the injury, indicating that he was now a paraplegic—I feel that there should be some compensation.

These people signed up. They did not sign up to become injured. They did not sign up to become poverty-stricken the rest of their lives. It's certainly a sad set of circumstances.

I respectfully suggest there should be some allowances for matters of that nature, as opposed to being a recipient of the disability section of the Canadian pension plan, or things of that nature. There should be some compensation.

[Tim Laidler]

I think I can make my comments, in particular, from my first-hand experience as a reservist.

There definitely are differences between the regular force and the reserve force, especially when it comes to transitioning out of the military.

The regular force members will have full-time pay. If they are injured, they will continue to get that full-time pay. In the reserve force, if you're injured, there's an ability to have a class C contract extended for a certain amount of time while you're getting treatment, but many don't get into that program, and they're stuck looking for those finances, looking for the other money to come in.

It definitely is an issue that needs to be looked at a second time. It's just the different needs between the two populations.