Evidence of meeting #19 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was charter.
A recording is available from Parliament.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
I have two more questions.
You talked about going back to school and I learned of the program they have where $75,800, I believe, is available to go to college or university. Have you accessed that program?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
Right now, I'm on VRPSM, which is from SISIP, so that's covering six months of transition. That's usually for technical training and trades training, and things like that. Given my disability, the trades are pretty much out for me. I'm not going to be a plumber or a electrician because I can't spend time on my feet. I'm not going to be climbing through buildings and things like that. I need a little more sedentary career with a little more stability in my workplace.
I am aware that Veterans Affairs offers an educational fund for when you get out, and I think that's a 24-month period, if I'm correct. So I do plan on accessing that to complete the rest of my undergrad.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Let's talk quickly about the adequacy, then, of the training between now and when you leave and the transition for when you leave. Do you feel the programs are adequate for you?
3:55 p.m.
As an Individual
I would say I have been able to utilize them in a really good way. The one problem I had was when I first started going to school, I wasn't necessarily sure I was ready to go back, because it was a whole different environment. I know school's roughly similar to the military, but the last job I had I was in Afghanistan and then, all of a sudden, I'm in a classroom full of students and quite a bit older, probably a little more rough around the edges. So it was a difficult transition to make, for sure. I felt like the clock was ticking and time was running out, and not everybody might be ready to utilize that in a timely fashion.
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Very quickly, this is my last question. I suspect you may know people with post-traumatic stress disorder, I'm not certain, but can you tell us, is the armed forces adequately reaching out enough to people who may have it, or even may be suspected of having it, or may not have it at all in order to bring them in to some kind of program so it could be dealt with before it's too late?
4 p.m.
As an Individual
I think in my scenario for all the severely injured they really do a thorough analysis of everybody. I had a lot of support and I've been doing really well. So I was really lucky, I could kind of overcome the demons. I haven't had a PTSD diagnosis. I would say it's more of a cultural thing as to why guys don't want to come forward, but that's really starting to change with a lot of guys and if they're having problems they're coming forward.
As to whether or not you can identify it and reach out there are a lot of assets available there, but you can't make somebody go out and get it. There are a lot of peer support systems though just with your buddies because there's a real camaraderie. I think it is getting better. There used to be that old tough-guy attitude. Now guys are a little more accepting and willing, but the onus is on the member to take the first step and do that.
4 p.m.
Conservative
4 p.m.
Conservative
Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Sir, welcome and thank you for being here. You seem to have a transition plan in place, at least somewhat, for when you leave the military. You spoke to the desire to go to law school, and you actually mentioned why you want to go to law school.
I just want to focus a little bit on the transition plan in terms of whether you had any guidance or support in terms of making that decision to go to law school. You've made a decision to go to law school and I can say with certainty based on your presence and the way you speak you're certainly articulate and obviously intelligent so I would expect quite strongly that you will be capable in law school.
That being said, perhaps not. Has there been any assessment done in terms of vocational rehabilitation to determine, as Mr. Valeriote mentioned, your aptitude to actually succeed in law school?
4 p.m.
As an Individual
I'm going to say no. For example, there's a little bit of career guidance the military has, I think it's called SCAN, second career assistance network, and there's a whole group of briefs. SISIP comes as well before you start your VRPSM to tell you about certain programs that you might want to do, and to show you various avenues in trades that you might want. There's the Helmets to Hardhats program that looks at getting members into the trades. It took me a while to figure out what I wanted to do.
I had another military friend at U of C law and was talking to him because law perked my interest in the last couple of years. As to whether I have an aptitude for it, I can show you a copy of my transcript, my GPA. I think I'll do quite well. But as to whether or not there's an aptitude test for anything like that, no. I had some really great guidance from my chain of command, who steered me in a direction, you should try this, you could take advantage of this. If I didn't have them I don't know where I'd be at today, but they were just phenomenal.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON
So based on your experience thus far would you recommend that there be some guidance to individuals in terms of developing a transition plan and then helping to provide some security in terms of your future?
4 p.m.
As an Individual
I think I would like to see a little bit more of it because the way I describe it is it's like getting out of high school all over again. I have to figure out a new career, I have to figure out a new life and what I'm going to do for the rest of it.
SISIP does an okay job, but again I think it could probably be improved upon. You mentioned aptitude, measuring people's aptitude, and I think that would probably be a good idea to have because a lot of guys don't know what they want to do when they get out. It took me a long time to figure out what I wanted to do. In oil-rich Alberta I had a lot of people talking to me trying to get me into the business world; it would definitely be a good avenue to pursue.
4 p.m.
Conservative
Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Did I hear you say, or am I mistaken, that specific to the $75,800 that's available towards an education through Veterans Affairs, it was your understanding that it was only to be used for technical programs?
4 p.m.
As an Individual
No. The way the system is designed, especially the vocational rehab, it's the period of time that is covered. When I originally got told about it, I think it was $25,000, a program under $25,000, covering roughly 24 months, which is a two-year program. One of the problems I know they were facing was if a program cost $26,000 the member can't pay anything over and above to get the program and still get the $25,000. So it has to be below that number for that member to utilize it. For Veterans Affairs I know they also have the 24-month period. I'm not quite sure what the dollar figure is because again I'm slowly...you said $75,000, sir?
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Yes, and I don't believe it's time limited. It was my understanding, when they came up with the $75,800, that the figure was actually based on what it costs for a four-year education. So it's at least four years and perhaps even longer. It isn't time limited. I'll just bring that to your attention, that the money I think will be available.
4:05 p.m.
As an Individual
I was completely unaware of that and no one has briefed me on that.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON
Nobody has briefed you on that? That's interesting. That's a flaw in the system because one would think that you should absolutely, positively, have been briefed on that. I would expect that eventually perhaps your case worker would have briefed you on that, but it is a relatively new program.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON
That's good. You've answered what I wanted. Thank you very kindly. I appreciate it.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
Bryan Hayes Conservative Sault Ste. Marie, ON
That's okay. I'm going to pass. I've asked what I wanted.
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
4:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
I'm sorry, guys.
Anyway, Monsieur Chicoine, I know you'll use your six minutes.
4:05 p.m.
NDP
Sylvain Chicoine NDP Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I also thank Corporal Fuchko for his presence. I also want to congratulate him for the resiliency he has shown despite his injuries. He is a good example, a model of persistence and resilience.
In the beginning of your statement you talked about the lack of support you had. You said it was a real joke. I would like you to talk to us briefly about the first moments after you were injured. What happened? How could you have felt better supported by the Department of National Defence?
4:05 p.m.
As an Individual
I always had really great support from my chain of command and from my unit in general.
One of the problems I had, for example, was with care delivery. I was originally sent to the Foothills Medical Centre in Calgary, Alberta. There was a real challenge with care delivery and quality of care, so I was actually pulled out of there relatively quickly.
The military did a fantastic job making sure I was getting proper care and looked after in a timely fashion, and getting what they thought I deserved. They would have sent me anywhere in the country if I thought I could have received better care. That was really outstanding. That really made a difference for my family.
One of the things I had was....There were a lot of teething issues again because I kept getting told, “This is new to us. This is new to us. This is new to us”, and there was a lot of difficulty in getting things like aids for daily living, and stuff like that.
Then one of the things that happened was I essentially became a photo-op for every local politician who came to see me and said, “Hey, I support the troops. I support the troops”. I've got a stack of business cards that is quite excessive. All these people said, “Hey, anything you need? Let us know if there are problems”. I found out as soon as I started bringing up problems that they would stop listening, and then the photo-op was over, so I found that really difficult.
Again, with the new Veterans Charter, here we are six years later and there have been numerous studies, numerous reports written. The ombudsman recently released one. The Equitas Society has another major one. I just feel like we have to explain it over and over again. It seems like we're just talking to a wall and there's been no progress made. It's getting really frustrating.
I don't necessarily have a problem with what happened to me. Getting killed, wounded, injured, maimed, that's what happens to soldiers, and that's the career I chose.
The main problem I have is all these promises were made to me that I would be taken care of, my family would be looked after. There is nothing in the new Veterans Charter for my family. There's nothing to support them. There's nothing to support my son or my wife, or anything like that. Whereas under the old system, there were survivor benefits, there was a different stipend depending on how many children you had, whether you were married. There's nothing like that in the new Veterans Charter.
These promises that were made to me, “Hey, this thing is evolving. It's going to move”, well, in six years I really haven't seen a whole lot of change. To me, it just seems like a whole group of empty promises.
