Evidence of meeting #30 for Veterans Affairs in the 41st Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was question.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Jean-Rodrigue Paré Committee Researcher
The difference is between a priority and a preference given in the legislation. Before that, in the Public Service Employment Act, the priority was given to veterans and their survivors, but as stated in the definition at the end, it only applied to veterans of the Second World War. After the Second World War, spouses of deceased veterans were eligible for this preference. Now it's only the regulatory priority that applies, not the statutory preference.
Conservative
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
I don't get a lot of respect at this table, as you can see.
I think about how many men and women leave the forces at an early age. I think about how few jobs are out there, with the cutting of 27,000 jobs out of the public service. I think about how hopeful the intention of the bill is, but its practical application may fall far short of what is hoped for by the legislation.
So I'm going to ask you, why is there the five-year limitation period? As skilled as the minister is in whatever he did in his previous life, I know he didn't write this; somebody else thought of the five years. Why not leave it open?
October 27th, 2014 / 4:10 p.m.
Director, Program Policy and Outreach, Department of Veterans Affairs
It's a good question. Unfortunately, I can speak only to what is in the bill before us. I can certainly take that point back, but the five—
Director, Program Policy and Outreach, Department of Veterans Affairs
To officials in our department.
Liberal
Frank Valeriote Liberal Guelph, ON
Okay. On that and a previous one, they've undertaken to bring answers back. In court that's called an “undertaking”, and they have to comply. Can we expect those answers soon?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
What I would say is that probably some of this should be passed to...because the PS is not here today. We'll make sure they're passed on to the minister's office, because in fairness, those are questions that get into policy in government.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
Yes, fair enough. We'll make sure that we get that. It will be recorded, then, Frank.
Now, we're at the end of our list. I know we're going to be cramped for time in the second round, but is there any other question around the table?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
A number of these questions will be specifically asked of the next round of witnesses, and they're just anxious to get in their seats.
We thank you very much for coming in and appreciate your efforts today. Thank you.
We'll allow just a couple of minutes to change chairs. We'll suspend for a couple of minutes.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
We'll reconvene.
Committee members, we have about 15 or 20 minutes of business to do at the end of this process, so I'll give you notice of how much time we need and we'll go in camera.
I trust that other members will show up here for the government side, but we'll move right along anyway.
As you're well aware from what happened previously, we have the second group in who are the ones who probably really understand the background legislation. I'd like to welcome Anne-Marie Robinson, Gerry Thom, and Michael West from the Public Service Commission of Canada. We appreciate your coming today.
I understand that you'd like about eight minutes to open, then we'll go to the same type of round of questions.
Please, when you're ready.
Anne-Marie Robinson President, Public Service Commission of Canada
Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
I'm very pleased to be here today to discuss Bill C-27, the veterans hiring act.
The Public Service Commission administers programs under the Public Service Employment Act to support the public service staffing system.
There are three important mechanisms in this bill, which will support the hiring of veterans and current members of the Canadian Armed Forces.
Today, I'd like to walk you through the changes to all three of those mechanisms. The first is the priority entitlement for medically released veterans. These entitlements provide persons with a right to be appointed ahead of all others to any position in the public service for which they've been assessed and are found qualified. The second is a preference in a competitive process to appoint qualified veterans to jobs that are externally advertised. The third is the eligibility of current Canadian Armed Forces members, as well as veterans, to participate in all advertised internal hiring processes.
Under the current legislative regime, the PSC is responsible for administering priority entitlements, which have an extensive scope. They apply to jobs in all regions of Canada and in all organizations covered by the Public Service Employment Act.
Before filling a vacant position a manager must first consider priority persons. The PSC is responsible for referring potentially qualified priority persons to hiring managers. Managers are provided with a clearance to proceed with an appointment process only if the PSC is satisfied that there's no one in the priority system who meets the essential qualifications of those positions.
There are two different types of priority entitlements: statutory priorities and regulatory priorities. Statutory priorities take precedence over regulatory priorities. That determines the order in which they are referred to departments, and is the reason why the order of precedence is important.
Under the current system surplus employees occupy the top statutory priority for appointment in their own organizations. This means that they must be appointed to vacant positions for which they are qualified before a person with a regulatory priority. Medically released veterans currently have a regulatory priority. From 2008 to 2012, the appointment of medically released veterans had the highest rate of placement—72% of all priority groups. However, the implementation of the 2012 spending review resulted in more surplus employees entering the priority system and, as I have already mentioned, they are the ones who have top statutory priority.
In the summer of 2012, the PSC shared this information with the Department of Veterans Affairs on the impact that the influx of surplus employees, as well as the decrease in the staffing, was having on the placement of medically released veterans. At the request of that department, the PSC provided technical options to address the situation for their consideration.
Since April 2012, more than 2,000 priority employees have been appointed to vacant positions. The majority of these appointments were surplus employees. Over the same two years, 67 medically released veterans were appointed, compared with 307 appointed during the two previous years.
Under the proposed changes, qualified veterans who are medically released with a service-related injury or illness would become the top statutory priority with an entitlement period that has been extended from two to five years. In other words, they would be considered and, if qualified, they would be appointed before all others.
The legislation would amend the existing regulatory priority for those veterans medically released for non-service related reasons to extend the current entitlement period from two years to five years.
Once this legislation comes into force, the changes to the priority entitlement will apply retroactively to April 1, 2012. Once medically released, veterans have five years in which to activate their priority entitlement. The PSC believes that the amendments to the priority entitlements proposed in Bill C-27 will make a difference.
As well, we have made significant enhancements to strengthen the priority administration program to better respond to the needs of organizations and priority persons. For instance, we put in place a case management approach to work directly with medically released veterans to advise them of their entitlements and to assist them in their search for public service employment.
I would now like to turn to the veterans preference. The veterans preference is a different type of mechanism under the Public Service Employment Act. The proposed amendment would update the definition of a veteran to add modern-day Canadian Armed Forces members who are honourably released with at least three years of service. The proposed amendment would give veterans a preference, if found qualified, to positions that are open to the Canadian public. In this case, veterans would access the website jobs.gc.ca, where jobs are advertised externally, choose whether to apply for a position or positions, and enter a competitive process. This preference means that if these veterans enter a competitive process and are assessed and meet the essential qualifications, they must be appointed ahead of others in the appointment process. The ability to benefit from such a preference would be in effect for up to five years following their release from the Canadian Armed Forces.
To help provide context, during the past five years the PSC has seen an average of slightly more than 5,500 persons hired permanently into the public service through external job competitions. This represents about one in every six job competitions. During the same period, there were on average just over 31,500 internal staffing activities per year for comparison.
This brings me to the third mechanism, which will be changed to allow current armed forces members as well as veterans to participate in all advertised internal processes. Since 2005, deputy heads and their hiring managers have had the option of giving members of the Canadian Armed Forces access to internal job competitions, but this proposed amendment would make that mandatory.
This means that veterans and current Canadian Armed Forces members would have access to these opportunities, but once they apply, they would be treated the same as all other applicants.
Mr. Chair, these provisions apply only to organizations that come under the Public Service Employment Act. I understand that discussions are under way with several organizations as well that are not subject to the Public Service Employment Act. These organizations, which have regional operations, are exploring administrative ways in which they can also meaningfully participate in these efforts to find employment for veterans. Our experience shows there has been a high rate of success in placing medically released veterans in large operational departments with a broad geographic footprint. In a way, this corresponds to where many members of the Canadian Armed Forces are employed. The involvement of these organizations would increase the number of employment opportunities for veterans. The PSC is committed to supporting this process in any way that we can.
Mr. Chair, we will continue to do all that we can to ensure that entitlements of medically released Canadian Armed Forces members are fully respected and to support veterans, as well as current members, in bringing their valuable skills and experience to the federal public service.
I'd like now to answer your questions.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Greg Kerr
Thank you very much, Ms. Robinson.
We're going to follow the same format, and we'll go one, two, three, and then by hands, so Mr. Rafferty is the first one for the NDP, please.
NDP
John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Okay, thank you very much. I didn't mean to do that.
You were here for the last panel, and you probably heard my question. I'll repeat it.
There's no mention of the RCMP in this bill, which, of course, Veterans Affairs has a mandate for. So in the case of an RCMP officer who is injured or dies in service, it's my understanding that in this bill their spouse would not be eligible for any sort of preferential hiring. The RCMP is not included in this bill, and I just wonder why they were excluded. Could you maybe comment on that?
President, Public Service Commission of Canada
I'm going to ask Michael to clarify the entitlements of the persons you've just talked about.
Like my colleagues, I cannot speak to the reason. As the president of the commission I report independently to Parliament, and the policy authority rests with the Minister of Veterans Affairs. Under this legislation, it's my job, if the law is put in place and passed by Parliament, to ensure that I administer the legislation in accordance with the act.
