Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 22nd, 2018

[Debbie Lowther]

Yes, I think building more houses is not necessarily the solution. I think affordable housing is definitely part of the solution.

I've been asked before whether I think that veterans should be considered a specialized population. What I mean by that is whether they should be given priority for housing over another person. If you asked my husband that, he, as a veteran, would say that he would not accept that. In the military he would have been taught that you would give up that housing for somebody else who needs it more.

My personal opinion is that I think veterans should be considered a specialized population and they should be given priority for housing.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. McInnis, could you comment on that as well?

[Raymond McInnis]

I believe that we need a lot more affordable housing. With the affordable housing, we also need a lot more case management services. For that—

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

—program.

[Raymond McInnis]

I mean for the whole program.

To go back to the other question about if we had more money—especially on the adjudication side, there are 38,000 backlog claims. People are waiting over a year and a half or two years to have a claim adjudicated.

Under the new Veterans Well-being Act, that changed on April 1, but they have no treatment. It's not like the old Pension Act under which they could get treatment, and then if their claim was favourable, they'd be paid for it. There are people out there waiting for their claim to be adjudicated and they have no treatment. That's wrong.

When it comes to accommodation or new infrastructure, affordable housing will be the key.

You might want to comment about Ontario and how we need affordable housing and not just buildings.

[Dave Gordon]

In Ontario we have the three facilities that are mentioned in the brief.

We also are very keen to have affordable housing. We have a developer who came forward in London. He's providing 14 units for homeless veterans. We have a developer in Niagara Falls who's coming forward. He has two or three buildings with 10 units in each building. He'll be putting those forward for homeless veterans. We have two or three other areas we're looking at.

We're also looking at the tiny homes development, to see where exactly we can do that in Ontario. Again, that's up to the municipalities. We'll have to convince municipalities to change their municipal bylaws to allow that size of a building.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Some veterans will have needs other than simply a place to live. Would you recommend that some of the affordable housing that's created be in the form of perhaps a small multi-residential building where several veterans could live together? Is that something that...?

[Dave Gordon]

We have that now in Ontario, in the three facilities that we have. We also have an office for the care workers. They're teaching the after-care programs. We have that in the three facilities.

Veterans Affairs also have offices. They have an office at the Good Shepherd Ministries on Queen Street in Toronto.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I'm thinking of the difficult cases, like the fellow in the tent, who said, “Don't bother me.”

[Raymond McInnis]

You need a combination of both, affordable housing and something like the multi-faith housing complex that will be going up in Rockcliffe, and what's happening in Toronto and across the country. You also need affordable housing where people can live in a community and get back to living in a normal community as well.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Right.

Have you talked to your colleagues across the border about these issues—the American experience?

[Dave Gordon]

When we first started the program, we approached their veterans affairs in Buffalo, New York. That's where we connected. We sat with those folks. We went over and spent a day and a half with them. One of the things they strongly suggested was not to try to reinvent the wheel. If somebody has a program, use it. I can tell you that we have.

I don't mind telling you that we've used other people's programs but adjusted them to what we need and want. That's how we came up with this. The program in Ontario is very strong. We're pretty proud of what we've done.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Ludwig.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to thank all of you for the work you're doing. It's incredibly important. Some of this is anecdotal, so I'll ask some questions on data, but I certainly thank you for the work you're doing.

Ms. Lowther, do you live in Halifax?

[Debbie Lowther]

I do.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Okay. I live in St. Andrews, New Brunswick, and my colleague lives in northern New Brunswick, so some of my questions will be more specific to the Atlantic region and will have to do with rural versus urban. I also sit on the international trade committee. We hear very different responses from witnesses based on where they're giving testimony from across the country.

When we look at the location of affordable housing, is there much affordable housing for veterans in Atlantic Canada?

[Debbie Lowther]

There's none specifically for veterans, but there is definitely a shortage of affordable housing in Atlantic Canada.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

What would you recommend for affordable housing in very rural settings? I can think of so many maritimers who will leave, especially in the case of service, with Base Gagetown in New Brunswick. and who will end up coming back. They want to be in their home communities. If the wraparound services aren't there, what do you recommend for that? What can you provide to us as insight?

[Debbie Lowther]

It is difficult when somebody lives rurally. We do know that there are times when veterans, particularly those who are dealing with mental health issues, don't want to live in urban settings. They do want to live more rurally, where it's quieter and it's better for their mental health. It is certainly a challenge as far as housing goes. I honestly don't know what the solution is to address that issue in rural settings.

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Gordon or Mr. McInnis, do you have a comment on that?

[Raymond McInnis]

I'll just say that in a rural setting, there are challenges getting not only affordable housing but mental health services—everything. It's whatever they can find in that local economy.

As far as coming up with a solution for it....

[Dave Gordon]

At the start of a new program, once the veteran knocks on our door and we verify service, the door is open. Our first question is, “What do you need?” Our office is in Aurora, Ontario, and we have a branch in Kapuskasing. We'll call them and say, “We have a homeless veteran in Kapuskasing and we need to find him accommodation.” We have 394 branches in Ontario. I can tell you that we can get service done in two hours or within—

[Karen Ludwig, Liberal, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Mr. Gordon, you are a numbers guy.

[Dave Gordon]

Yes.