Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 27th, 2018

[Aaron Segaert]

When I started with HPS in 2009, there was a lot of skepticism about trying to measure homelessness. People thought we were wasting money trying to do this. You're right, though, that when it comes to dealing with the problem—how much money it's going to cost and all that—we need to have numbers, so I think it's important.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Mr. Stanfield, thank you for.... I've been looking up your activities over the many years, and your record is pretty amazing. What actually led you to this work? Was there something that triggered you to get going on it?

[Angus Stanfield]

I've thought about that question a lot, and there is. It's just a personal thing. My grandfather was in the First World War. He had quite an influence on me. He came back, obviously, but he was injured, very traumatized. I knew Grandpa lived with demons. That's the only way I could put it.

He was a piper and he taught me how to play the bagpipes. It was a bond. Other than that, I don't know that I would have ever connected. Indeed, most of his grandchildren didn't. I think that kind of stuck with me.

I saw what my father went through after the Second World War—and he joined again and went to Korea—to a far lesser degree. I think that must have been in the back of my mind, though, because as soon as I heard about this, just over a conversation in a coffee shop, to be honest, I felt that here was something I had to do, never thinking that 10 years down the road I'd ever still be doing it.

I think that's just the personal part. The other thing is that I belong to the Royal Canadian Legion, whose mandate is to look after veterans and their families. There are 1,400 Legion branches in Canada, and every one of them has a service officer. It's a little bit of a finger on the pulse of the community. They know who is coming in for a little bit of a handout now and then or a little bit of help.

I think this is something that, maybe even in the next point of time, all of the Legion branches in that area should be approached about too, because they know of cases that aren't visible. That's how we found many of the people.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

What things around Cockrell...? You mentioned playing the pipes and all that, but if there were a piano or a library.... Is there anything that starts to draw them back into...?

[Angus Stanfield]

I'd love that, but the house we have doesn't even have a common area, unfortunately. It makes many things difficult. We started with nothing and we have this place now. We're happy and proud of what we've done, but it's nowhere near to being enough. We have to move on, and the next step would be a place with a common area and being able to do some of the things you just suggested, to have a little get-together once a week.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Wagantall, you have four minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Dr. Segaert and Mr. Stanfield. I appreciate your testimony.

First, I'd like your comments on this matter. We have shelters, and they do good work; however, VETS Canada and you, yourselves, just mentioned, if someone needs a place, you ask for a hotel. At VETS Canada, Debbie has said to me that they don't want to put them in a shelter, if at all possible. Your transition home is that next step to their hopefully having their own home.

It deeply concerns me that you're the only one. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of that first time when you realize that they're homeless and, if you don't have room, wonder where they should go, and how important that is?

[Angus Stanfield]

There seems to be a reluctance on the part of most veterans to go to a shelter, perhaps just because there are so many people there who are unlike them. Quite often it's younger people, with more drugs-type problems.

I think that's just generalizing.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

There's something about admitting that you need to be there versus possibly being in a hotel for a night and moving on from there—that type of thing.

[Angus Stanfield]

We only do the hotel thing just to give us enough time to try to free up a room or find a place. We've actually had people in the community....

We had one fellow come along, an older person whose wife had passed away. He had a big house. He said, “I was a veteran myself. Is there anything I can do to help some of these people?” I said, “If you have a spare bedroom, would you be willing to offer that, with a little bit of help and some oversight?”

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much.

Dr. Segaert, you mentioned that 50% of those in the younger age bracket are female veterans. The percentage of women in the armed forces is not 50%. Do you have any explanations or thoughts about why there's a larger percentage of the women who are serving than of the men?

[Aaron Segaert]

That's a real puzzler. We were surprised to find this, although I caution that the numbers are very small. In the first study on the nature of veteran homelessness, we're talking about an estimated 33 women. It's not very many, so I don't want to draw strong conclusions. I just think it warrants further research.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes, definitely; it's interesting. Thank you.

Mr. Stanfield, could you explain to me how you go about getting food cards and bus passes?

[Angus Stanfield]

We approach one of the local retail food chains and just grind on them as much as we can.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

It's a community effort.

[Angus Stanfield]

Yes. It's a big part of the program. We go through about $1,200 a month just in food cards. Our bus passes are $85 apiece, but we've been able to find a place where we can get two for one.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

VETS Canada does that as well. These are very immediate needs that you're meeting for them, in addition to the housing first. You're providing an all-encompassing program for them to get off the street, basically, at that point. It's very commendable.

[Angus Stanfield]

I think all-encompassing is what we try for, because if we can do this, there's a better chance of solving that one issue with that one veteran.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I have an opportunity in Saskatchewan possibly to do this type of thing, and an additional portion is that they would be able to stay longer if they enrolled in a program in our community college or that type of thing.

You were mentioning too that if they're in school or taking a course, you're more willing to let them stay longer.

[Angus Stanfield]

On an individual basis, it is an option. In some cases, it would be nice if we had a phase two of Cockrell House for those who don't need all of the things they're getting there, so that somebody else could come in and have the advantage. When they're not quite ready to be totally self-sufficient and out on their own, if we could have that second step....

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Chen, you have four minutes.

[Shaun Chen, Scarborough North, Lib.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with Mr. Samson.

In my short time on this committee, I've heard witnesses and others talk about the importance of veterans being part of the solution.

Mr. Stanfield, you mentioned that when reaching out to homeless veterans, sometimes word of mouth or a helping hand from another veteran to bring in that homeless veteran is very powerful.

Can you talk to some more examples of how important it is to include veterans in providing solutions for veterans?

[Angus Stanfield]

Once again, just by feeling that they're still part of a family and that they're not alone, they can speak about it far more openly. This helps with some of the stigma and shame that sometimes go with finding yourself down at rock bottom.

[Shaun Chen]

That is extremely powerful.

I was meeting today with the Canadian Construction Association. They had read my bio and knew that I was sitting on the veterans affairs committee. They were talking about how interested they were to reach out to veterans to provide opportunities to them to train and find employment in that vast and booming industry.

Can you talk about some of the challenges veterans might face with respect to finding employment and how these tie in to the other issues they might be facing, such as homelessness or health issues, and whether there's a gap there and how it relates to the broader concern we want to give attention to for our veterans?