Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 27th, 2018

[Angus Stanfield]

I think there are opportunities to work with organizations such as the construction association. I think they should be explored.

We try to hook our guys up with the WorkLink office, which is only a block or two away. Some of them are ready for it after a couple of months. There's that first step: getting a bit of confidence and deciding that they can do it. Some of the guys have had success with this and are back out in the workforce.

We have some, and more than just a couple, who are not a burden on society anymore and are doing the very best they can. In their own way, they're not going to do any better. Two of them live on two different gulf islands. One of them has a guitar and lives on an island on which in the winter there are only 400 people. In the summer, of course, there are tourists all over the place.

There's another old fellow there who has a guitar. He gets through the winter, and in the summer he sits on the rocks with his fishing rod. He's doing the best he can. He would take the ferry and visit his daughter once a month—then it became once a week—on the island. Now all of a sudden, she's over there and he's a single parent. He's the happiest guy in the world. It's a success, but he made the success. We just gave him the chance.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Samson, you have time for one question, and that's it.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you. You're so kind.

Thank you to both of you for your presentation. Mr. Stanfield, the work you and your team are doing is just exceptional, and I want to thank you sincerely because it's much needed, as you stated.

I guess if I must limit my important discussion to one question, it would be this. What relationship do you have with other organizations across Canada that do similar things to help veterans? Is there a line of communication? Is there some sharing of best practices?

[Angus Stanfield]

Yes, there is. Some of the workshops that Veterans Affairs puts on are a very good place to meet others. I haven't gone to one yet where there wasn't that kind of benefit. There's a lot of opportunity for all of us to work together and share best practices.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

In closing, the national housing strategy places a priority on veterans. Are you aware of this new strategy coming out and how maybe you can get on board? Have you had discussions around that?

[Angus Stanfield]

Yes. We're working on it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

That ends our time for this panel. On behalf of the committee I would like to thank both of you for all you do for veterans in your organizations. We'll recess for a couple of minutes while we get our next panel in front of us. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Good afternoon. I'd like to call the meeting back to order.

In this round we have, from the Multifaith Housing Initiative, Suzanne Le, executive director. From the Royal Canadian Naval Benevolent Fund, we also have Robert Cléroux and Tom Riefesel.

We'll start with Robert, for 10 minutes.

[Robert Cléroux, President, Royal Canadian Naval Benevolent Fund]

Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman and honourable members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. Thank you for inviting the Royal Canadian Naval Benevolent Fund to address you today.

My name is Chief Petty Officer, retired, Bob Cléroux. I retired from the Canadian Armed Forces and the Royal Canadian Navy in 2013 after serving 37 years. My last post was as a Canadian Forces chief warrant officer.

I've been a member of the Royal Canadian Legion since 2006 and am presently employed by the Canadian Corps of Commissionaires, a federation of 15 private not-for-profit security companies with a social mandate of providing meaningful employment to veterans.

All this is to say that I have a lot of empathy for veterans, but I'm here today as president of the Royal Canadian Naval Benevolent Fund. I've been with the fund since 2007 and have served as its president for the past five years.

With me today is our vice-president, Lieutenant-Commander Tom Riefesel. He also has over 35 years of service with the Royal Canadian Navy.

The Royal Canadian Naval Benevolent Fund's mission is to relieve distress and support the well-being of both serving and veteran families of Canada, and we've been doing this since 1942. The RCNBF provides financial support through grants, loans and bursaries to serving and former members of the Canadian Forces, both regular and reserve, who wear the naval uniform, and those other than navy who have at least one year of service with units of the Royal Canadian Navy.

This support is also extended to eligible dependants, and we also provide support to Canadian Merchant Navy veterans who fall under the act formerly called the Merchant Navy Veteran and Civilian War-Related Benefits Act and their dependants.

For 76 years, the RCNBF has served the naval forces of Canada through distress loans, grants and educational support programs to qualified naval personnel and their dependants. During this period we have assisted more than 40,000 people and given out over $17 million.

Over the past year alone, we have provided financial assistance to 237 qualified applicants, totalling $588,388. That total is broken down as follows: 83 grants totalling $250,757 were disbursed to 25 serving sailors, 54 veterans and four merchant navy vets; and 19 loans totalling $218,706 were disbursed, of which 14 were approved to serving members. In recent years, the issuing of loans is becoming an increasing and useful part of our business. Thirty-two educational bursaries were awarded to 32 young Canadians in pursuit of post-secondary education, totalling $34,000, Also, 108 minor disbursements, totalling $84,926, were made.

The minor disbursement fund is used to provide emergency assistance to eligible applicants on application to a Veterans Affairs Canada office, to VETS Canada, or through the Royal Canadian Legion branches. The maximum MDF grant is $1,000. Legion branches, with their widespread accessibility, continue to be a valuable conduit to those who need this type of assistance.

In addition to direct financial assistance, the RCNBF collaborates with other funding and supporting agencies in order to provide the right level of assistance in a timely and efficient manner. One should not underestimate the power of these well-established relationships. We feel that there are many reasons leading to homelessness, including substance abuse, mental illness, traumatic brain injury and undiagnosed developmental disabilities, to name a few, and the RCNBF have helped in some of those cases.

Normally, either the Legion or VETS Canada finds the recipients on the streets and engages us in participating in helping them into some sort of housing. We had a veteran in southern Ontario who was found living in a tent. When he was approached, all he wanted from us was a lamp for his tent and a bicycle to go to work with. We helped, but I'm glad to report he is now in an apartment. With thanks, and in co-operation with the Royal Canadian Legion, he has left the streets behind.

We, the RCNBF, are also seeing other types of homelessness or near homelessness caused by financial distress. This financial distress can be the result of poor decisions during transition. As an example, a recent client received a large amount of money upon release. He did not qualify for a pension. He spent more than half of his settlement on the purchase of a house that needed a lot of repairs. He does not have a salary or a pension, so the bank won't lend him any money to fix his roof or his heating.

Some sailors find the transition from the military to the civilian world very difficult. The military provides financially and medically. You're clothed, fed and taken care of in almost every way. The military becomes part of an extended family. Now imagine someone who releases or retires without family support. He or she may feel abandoned, alone, maybe even desperate.

In another recent case, a divorced father moved to Oshawa for employment to be closer to his child, only to find that the job he was expecting had disappeared. He's now couch surfing. We will try to assist him with the first and last month's rent.

In my opinion, the majority of veterans retire or release from the Canadian Armed Forces without issues. They are prepared financially, they have a support network and they have a job lined up once they transition.

There is a fraction—and I'm not sure how big that fraction is—who, when they release from the Canadian Armed Forces, are unprepared for that transition. They leave the Canadian Armed Forces at risk because they are not prepared financially, educationally, emotionally and medically, and they lack the knowledge for a successful transition.

ln conclusion, I consider that the Royal Canadian Naval Benevolent Fund, over these past 76 years, has fulfilled and will continue to fulfill its mandate, coast to coast to coast. The RCNBF has made a very meaningful contribution to the relief of distress and the promotion of well-being for those who have served and continue to serve Canada at sea, their dependants and their families.

The board of directors, membership and administrative staff wish to express their sincere appreciation for the co-operation and assistance received from Veterans Affairs Canada, CFPAF, SISIP, the Canadian Armed Forces, the Soldiers' Aid Commission, the Royal Canadian Legion and a host of other organizations, whose members are dedicated to helping our veterans and eligible applicants.

Tom and I would be happy to take any questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Le, you have 10 minutes.

[Suzanne Le, Executive Director, Multifaith Housing Initiative]

Good afternoon, honourable members of the House and the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

The Multifaith Housing Initiative is a charitable non-profit housing organization working in Ottawa since 2002. Its mission is to provide safe, well-maintained and affordable housing and supports for individuals and families who are either homeless or at risk of homelessness.

MHI has a proven track record in the development and successful delivery of affordable housing. We have just completed a 98-unit community in west Ottawa that was recently awarded the Greater Ottawa Home Builders' Association award for “Best Community (Built)” in 2017. The community was built on time, on budget and to the right deliverable.

MHI plans to create an affordable housing project with supports for veterans at risk of homelessness. The project will use a supportive housing-first model that seeks to help the veterans deal with health, mental health and addictions-related issues.

MHI will create the project on the site of the former Rockcliffe air base in Ottawa's east end. This site has been declared surplus by DND, and the Canada Lands Company has undertaken the required site planning and servicing needed to dispose of the property. MHI was able to secure a piece of the land on the air base in March 2018 through the federal program known as the surplus federal real property for homelessness initiative, run under ESDC.

To give you a few facts and statistics we have on the problem, the Alliance to End Homelessness Ottawa conducted a survey in April 2015. Of the homeless people they interviewed over a five-day period, they found that 8.5% of the homeless persons surveyed reported Canadian military service. That compares to 6.4% in Hamilton and 5% in Waterloo.

In April of this year, Ottawa conducted a government-mandated point-in-time count of the homeless population. In a two-day period, they found that 5% of respondents identified as former Canadian military or RCMP members, 62 as Canadian Armed Forces and three as RCMP. Of these respondents, 35% also identified as indigenous. Over the past three years, Soldiers Helping Soldiers, an Ottawa-based boots-on-the-ground organization of serving military members who volunteer in the shelters to identify and aid military veterans, has encountered over 380 homeless persons with prior military service.

In 2016, the Mental Health Commission of Canada released its report entitled “At Home/Chez Soi”. In this study, we learned that compared to other participants veterans had higher levels of education, were 1.6 times more likely to have been robbed prior to the study and were 1.4 times more likely to have PTSD.

The Chez Soi study, combined with similar studies coming out of the U.K. and the U.S., has given us the following insights. Alcoholism, drug addiction and mental health problems contribute to and perpetuate homelessness amongst veterans, especially in cases where there were pre-existing mental health conditions. Drinking—socially and as a means of compensation—began while in the military.

Also, the transition from military to civilian life is dislocating for many. The abrupt change to the relatively unstructured civilian world from a very highly structured one can also disrupt focus, trust and friendships.

As well, a variety of reasons conspire to separate vets from their Canadian Forces or Veterans Affairs Canada benefits, such as legal obligations to others, no fixed address, no ID, etc. Homeless veterans describe a complex relationship with VAC. Some felt abandoned by VAC once they were discharged. Others felt that they were well supported by VAC, indicating that they were getting the help they needed to move on with life.

The Multifaith Housing Initiative solution is Veterans' House. We are committed to the construction and ongoing management of this project. It will be a 40-unit home for veterans who are currently homeless or at high risk of homelessness, and it will include wraparound supports.

Veterans' House will target the needs specifically and solely of homeless veterans who are living rough or are at high risk of becoming homeless due to mental health needs. The supportive housing model will help these individuals gain stable housing, recover from health, mental health and addiction-related issues, and improve their overall quality of life as well as the lives of their families who are unable to provide them with the support they need.

MHI is currently advancing Veterans' House to a place where we can be prepared to start construction in 2019. Therefore, at this moment in time, MHI is working towards the goal of getting this project as shovel ready as possible to ensure that once all the funding is secured there are no delays in construction.

To this date, MHI has secured the land through the federal government, submitted our site plan application to the City of Ottawa and submitted an application to the co-investment fund, which was created as part of the national housing strategy and is administered by CMHC. This fund identifies veterans specifically as a special priority group to benefit from the fund. We have embarked on a very large $5-million capital campaign to support the project.

MHI takes a collaborative approach to all of our projects. In this vein, MHI has built up a village of collaborations and partnerships to support our tenants in Veterans' House once it is constructed. Partners and stakeholders for Veterans' House include Ottawa Salus, Veterans Affairs Canada, Soldiers Helping Soldiers, the Royal Canadian Legion Ontario Command and District G, True Patriot Love, Canadian Forces Morale and Welfare Services, Support Our Troops, and Helmets to Hardhats.

However, all projects come with challenges and ours is not without them.

The challenges we have faced on this project include a lack of provincial and municipal participation in the funding, which makes long-term viability more difficult. We have solved this issue by embarking on the large capital campaign I spoke of and reaching out to the public to fill the gaps that the province or municipality would have filled in a more traditional affordable housing build.

Also, the underwriting process for the CMHC co-investment fund as it is currently being implemented by CMHC is arduous, exceptionally risky for the proponents, impractical and at risk of causing some unreasonable delays to the project. Further, once all the documents are prepared for CMHC's underwriting review to begin, proponents are expected to begin construction without funding or to try to fund the early few months of construction by themselves.

Another issue we have found is that CMHC is refusing to continue the underwriting process until we have confirmed the full receipt of the $5-million capital campaign. A capital campaign of that size will take us at least two to three years to complete, and it was our plan to do the capital campaign while in construction.

MHI believes that Canada owes these men and women of the Canadian military service a duty of care. We are doing our part to respond to that. We also believe that there is strong federal support across all party lines for those former soldiers who are so desperate for our help. For that, we are very thankful to you.

Once funded initially, Veterans' House will sustainably continue to care for our veterans for years to come without any further funding from the government, and it will be something real and tangible that we can all feel very proud of for years to come.

Thank you very much for your attention today.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

We'll begin five-minute rounds with Ms. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thanks for being here. We really appreciate what you've brought to the table today.

I would like to have both of you respond just quickly in regard to the discussion around the fact that it's a fraction of our veterans who don't do well, who come out and are really struggling. You referred to not being prepared with education, finances, emotional stability and health—all of those things.

We need to deal with homelessness, but the ideal thing to do would be to make it even less common. When we're talking about that side of the picture, do you hear concerns from them?

Would you say that it would be better if, as our committee has studied and recommended, DND did not release them until all of those things are absolutely in place for them? That would be for the high-risk individuals, so that everything is in place before they're released. Of course, the majority of them who are high risk are released due to medical reasons due to service, and the concern here at the committee was also that this has been established, so it shouldn't need to be re-established by VAC. Just make it happen prior to their leaving.

What role do you see in that issue of that fraction not being prepared to release?

[Robert Cléroux]

We would absolutely agree that they should not be released until they are prepared to re-enter the civilian world. Some of it is as simple as not understanding that when they get a VAC settlement or SISIP settlement of a couple of hundred thousand dollars and they buy themselves a house, they then don't qualify for welfare or disability support programs because they own a house or have money in the bank. They don't understand the rules that apply on civilian street once they retire from the armed forces.

Education is a big thing. I spent 37 years in the military. I finished as a Canadian Forces chief warrant officer, but once I became a civilian again, the only thing that was recognized was my Grade 12 education from 1977. There's no accreditation for my time in the armed forces, unless it's a company that understands where you're coming from.

I absolutely agree that especially the injured—the corporal, master corporal, master seaman or leading seaman who is not going to have a huge pension—should not be released until they understand what's going to happen next.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Right. We know from other information we've received that for the majority of veterans who end up homeless, it's about a decade after they are released, versus the average of the other individuals who are homeless. The truth of the matter is that a lot of the younger ones who are homeless probably wouldn't be if they'd been part of the armed forces because you have all of those things in place for you at that time.

Suzanne, could you talk to me about this funding for Veterans' House? How much capital are you receiving from Veterans Affairs Canada specifically for the building?

[Suzanne Le]

We are not receiving any funding from Veterans Affairs Canada.

The project is going to be an $11.5-million build. We are fundraising $5 million of it. Our application to the co-investment fund is for $5 million. We will mortgage the remaining balance of $1.5 million. That is the most mortgage we can sustain on the very low rents that we are going to be charging the tenants.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

CMHC is saying that you have to have the full $5 million promised or in the bank?

[Suzanne Le]

They want us to be able to show them that we have all of the money committed.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay.

I know that with capital fundraising it takes time for that to build and to roll, and a lot of times seeing something physical in front of you that is at stage one or whatever makes a difference to that continued growth in funding. Have you been able to communicate that?

[Suzanne Le]

We have tried. We had a conference call with CMHC a couple of weeks ago.

When we first got the list of what they wanted us to do before they would start the underwriting process, we thought it was a mistake. It's not normal in affordable housing developments. We have received federal, provincial and municipal government funding for previous projects, and this has never been the way it's been done. Generally you get a letter of commitment, and then you start doing the studies.

They were unbending.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

This is with regard to the veterans you service with the Legion and with your housing. Without being personal or getting personal information, do you have any means of recording conversations or feedback as you talk with individuals who you have in your house and as you work with them? Do you have any means for that in terms of the transition in how they have moved from serving to being released, to being homeless, in order to come up with some concept of why, in that course of time, they ended up in that state?

[Robert Cléroux]

We don't. A lot of them actually feel ashamed—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I know. It's all anecdotal.

[Robert Cléroux]

A lot of them feel ashamed to come to us in the first place, or they weren't sure that we were even there to be able to help them. Also, they don't necessarily want to share their stories either, so it's difficult to do that.

I don't know if you want to add anything, Tom?

[Tom Riefesel, Vice-President, Royal Canadian Naval Benevolent Fund]

Vulnerabilities take on very many shapes and forms. The veterans we serve are often hampered by that vulnerability, like Bob said. After a proud period of service where you are strong and you have to be strong, and then when you're out of uniform you can't be strong, where do you turn for support?