Evidence of meeting #12 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Director, Canadian Caregivers Brigade
I would recommend a separate person. Case managers have enough of a workload. By adding another piece to their workload, you'll be in the same situation you have now, where they're fighting for more help themselves. You need a separate person specifically trained in financial management.
The guys coming out of the forces are used to being paid semi-monthly. Sometimes they're left with nothing for a couple of months, and then they're put on a monthly amount. It's hard for them to manage.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
I appreciate that point. If we're talking about being proactive, though, rather than sitting back and saying to someone who would like to see a financial manager that we'll give them $500 for it, should it actually be recommended to them and at least discussed with them in terms of its importance?
Director, Canadian Caregivers Brigade
It should be one of their appointments in their release.
Administrator, Send Up the Count, Facebook Group, As an Individual
That financial adviser should be provided as well. When I went through the process, I had to find my own financial adviser. I asked Veterans Affairs for recommendations, because I didn't know anybody, and they wouldn't give me recommendations. That should be provided.
Liberal
NDP
Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
One of the things I've been thinking about relates to what you said, Mr. Harris. You talked about the difference between World War II and Korean vets and those coming back from Afghanistan. The World War II and Korean vets went, served, and then came home, whereas Afghanistan vets would have multiple services and would return to the field multiple times.
What kind of effect does it have, knowing that you have to go back there? What does it do to the veteran? What does it do to the family?
Sgt Matthew Harris
I was in Bosnia in 1998, and then I did two back-to-back Afghanistan ones. I came home for just about a year, and then I went again. It was very difficult for my family for me to go back.
It was selfish, I guess, on my part to want to go back. I volunteered to go back. I wasn't made to go back. A lot of people think that we are made or forced to go back, but as reservists, we are not. We volunteer to go back.
It was difficult for my family. They didn't understand why I wanted to or needed to. I needed to go back. This is me personally, but from talking with others, it seems to be the case all the time. There is always that. You want to go back. The job doesn't feel finished, or you feel you are doing something fantastic, bigger. Everything is real. When you come home and you work, doing anything, it doesn't really seem that real. Everything can wait. You can put things aside. You can call a doctor, rearrange a schedule. There, it was very real.
Yes, it is very difficult for the families. I know kids have been diagnosed with PTSD, and you think, “Why?” The kids, the children, didn't serve.
Imagine a six-year-old kid whose father is in Afghanistan, or any place far away, and his imagination. The images in that kid's head every day are that his dad is being killed. Those images, although they were made up in his own head, become real every day and every night. Every morning he wakes up, it's “Is a person going to be knocking on my door to tell me my daddy is dead or my mom is dead?” It is extremely difficult for them.
Then, when these soldiers come home, they are having issues or what have you, and those kids are having issues. You wonder, “What happened while I was gone? Why has the kid changed?” Then, of course, they get diagnosed with PTSD, and they get nothing. There's no coverage.
I am thankful that I have a federal government job in the public service in my real life, so I have other avenues, but I shouldn't have to use those avenues for my kids.
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
Thank you.
Dana, you brought up an incredible point. I just want you to know that my son is graduating from RMC next week. Those two who died in the last 10 days were his classmates, so I know exactly what you are talking about.
Kimberly, you mentioned something at the beginning of your testimony, and I think I had an “aha!” moment today. You mentioned that this is the third time you've been here, and you are worried that what you're saying is falling on deaf ears. It didn't, because I did have that “aha!” moment.
I think Mrs. Wagantall hit the nail on the head. We are conditioning the members of our Canadian Armed Forces from the time they sign up to serve their country not to be sick, lame, or lazy, but also to work in a pack mentality, in terms of a squadron or a platoon. They always have that, even in the college. They are in their squadron or in their platoon. They are always part of a family, a team.
When they are medically released or leave the forces, we take away their team, their family. We don't have a huge number of people serving anymore, so they don't come back to a community where there are others like them. They are now alone, so they don't know how to cope.
I think the proliferation of.... These peer-to-peer support groups are actually—and I would like your opinion on this—a replacement for their platoons and their squadrons, because they are looking for like-minded individuals to support them.
I am now thinking that we should—I don't want to say de-condition—retrain them to be able to be on their own, to be able to come back into society and not have that absolute need to be in a platoon.
I would like your thoughts on this.
President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy
The problem is stigma, and I am going to say that again so everyone understands.
Liberal
Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC
Mr. Blais, and then I would have Kimberly respond.
President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy
That stigma interferes when that is the platoon unit. He is not coming forward. She is not coming forward. She does not want to be an outcast of that family. She does not want to be the weak link.
I served in the Royal Canadian Regiment. We have deployed so many times wherever, but particularly in Afghanistan, where I know people who have sustained, after three tours, serious mental wounds but will not come forward and will not admit it until they get out. Well, how does that work? Suddenly, they are out. They have never come forward and identified that mental wound. All of sudden, they have a wound.
There are problems there that we can resolve through creating a bond of trust, a trust in the Department of National Defence and in Veterans Affairs, where there is no stigma, where we look at them and say, “My God, you are hurt, and we can help you” and not, “Oh, well, we are going to shunt you here or punt you there.”
No, we have to change the whole cultural attitude toward mental wounds. It must be a culture of acceptance and understanding.
Director, Canadian Caregivers Brigade
Thank you.
Ironically, my husband left the forces and then came back as a civilian, because in that three-year span he was looking for the camaraderie. Unfortunately, when he came back as a civilian, he came back under a master corporal he had butted heads and had confrontations with while he was serving. He found it more difficult coming back to that camaraderie because he was hitting a brick wall again.
A lot of these guys who get out will come back in as civilians. They're looking for that team, looking for that camaraderie. With these peer support groups, they're now able to get that camaraderie.
My husband right now, after his experience of trying to go back as a civilian, says he's done. He doesn't want to have anything to do with OSISS or anything to do with peer supports. He just doesn't. He volunteers me up to do stuff. I'm like, “Fine, I'll volunteer to do stuff as long as I know that you won't break down if I volunteer to do stuff”, because it's difficult to bring him back if he breaks down.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
Thank you.
Right now we have about four minutes left. I'll give every group one minute to close.
We can start with Canadian Veterans Advocacy, for one minute.
President and Founder, Canadian Veterans Advocacy
First, I'd like to thank you all for inviting me to speak today. I hope the voice of proactive engagement has resonated, because I believe in my heart we can negate many of the problems that have been created.
I think also we have to address stigma, address the mental health wound, and come out positively and affirmatively to those who have been wounded to encourage them to self-identify the moment the wound presents. We cannot provide the comprehensive care that is required if they cover up that wound until they get out. They won't come forward because they're afraid. They're afraid of losing their family. They're afraid of being ostracized from the platoon. Most importantly, they're afraid of getting kicked out, because they don't want to get kicked out.
I think we need a review of how we deal with mental wounds and physical wounds. I think the department has to be much more proactive on service delivery.
Administrator, Send Up the Count, Facebook Group, As an Individual
My main take-away that I'd like you all to be aware of is that when you're medically released, you have at least a year to a year and a half of knowing this is coming, with time to prepare. That's plenty of time for Veterans Affairs to get in there, get involved, so that the day you release, you have medical appointments already set up with civilian doctors. You have all of that already in place so that your care isn't interrupted, especially if you're relocating. I found that incredibly difficult. I'm still fighting with it.
That's one thing that could be definitely very high on the proactive list—making sure that people, when they release, actually have appointments set up and care already arranged. They don't have to do anything. It's already arranged for them so that they can at least start their new life medically going in the right direction.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
Thank you.
Next we'll hear from the 31 Canadian Brigade Group Veteran Well-Being Network.
Sgt Matthew Harris
I'd just like to start off by saying that somebody brought up a question around whether people are prepared when they get out of the military. I think this is what it is: they're not prepared to not be supported. As Mr. Blais said, “proactive” seems to be the keyword that is working very well today.
When you're in the military, they call you all the time. They come and see you. There's a padre there. It's proactive. People in leadership are coming out to see you to see if you're okay. It's a great way to continue that. However, when you get out, there's nobody proactively helping you. It's difficult. You're not prepared for that non-support.
So veterans helping veterans, it works. It's what veterans are actually seeking on their own. It seems to be one approach to look into.
Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis
Thank you.
Now we'll have Canadian Caregivers Brigade. Kimberly Davis, you're up.