Veterans Affairs Committee on June 12th, 2019

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Number one, the wait time is not over a year. There are likely people applying today. There is a number there, without a question—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I have multiple veterans in my riding and veterans from other ridings who have called and told us that, and it is definitely a concern for them. They're calling in to check on their file and they're being told, “This amount is your wait time,” but the amount of time they've waited has already surpassed the number that they're being told.

One of the things when we had the ombudsman here was that he talked about veterans just wanting a realistic wait time. If it's a long time—if it's a year or a year and a half—just knowing that would be a lot less stressful than continually calling back and being told that it's going to be longer.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I agree with you. The wait times are something that we definitely have to deal with, but you also understand that we have an over 60% increase in applications. The point is that in Veterans Affairs you can never be sure. You don't know exactly how many veterans are going to come to the door, but the doors are all open. That's why we opened the centres right across the country.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I guess the clarity I'm really looking for is that, with the wait times being about a year in many cases—I'm going to listen to what veterans are telling me—with that happening.... Right now, I appreciate the increase in staff that have been hired, but what the budget is saying is that after this year, going into 2020-21, there is actually going to be a decrease in the funding because these are temporary positions to support all of the people calling in, but the backlog is so significant. I'm just trying to figure out the rationale for that.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

There is certainly going to be no decrease when we're behind the eight ball, but I'll let my—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

You're saying that if it continues at this high rate, then next year we would hopefully not see the budget decreased.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I feel that we're basically obliged to supply the service for veterans. The fact is that we started with under 100 caseworkers and now we have nearly 500, I believe. That's number one.

We've hired over 700 people of the 1,000 who were let go by the previous government, all of which created quite a problem. Is it all solved? No, but we have done an awful lot to get it in line. In fact, what we have done has increased the inflow of applications.

Go ahead, Walter.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Could I talk to a few of those points?

The $10 billion for our department is accrual funding, which means we have actuarials come in, looking at the full projection, the number of clients and the client base, and then we consider a young soldier, sailor, airman or airwoman who is 20 or 25 years old, and we're providing a benefit to them for potentially 60 or 70 years.

When we talk about our funding, some of that $10 billion is in the funding going forward, but be mindful that whatever benefit comes in is a statutory obligation and, every year, as our financial statements will show, we have had to go back and ask for additional funding because the benefits are needs driven. In addition, within that $10 billion, as the minister indicated, is the augmentation of staff.

Going to the whole aspect of wait times, right now, mindful of the 60% increase, the average wait time has been 32 weeks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, and thank you, General. It's good to see you back, as always.

There was some mention of this before. The nine veterans centres that were closed by the previous government reopened, and a 10th one has been opened. Can you comment on the impact this has had on Veterans Affairs' ability to deliver services to veterans?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

First of all, having the 10 offices open across the country provides information for veterans right across the country, but in fact what it has done is that it has spurred the application process, because the fact is that—and the department is saying yes more often now, too—it has increased by over 60% the number of people who are applying for benefits. That's a good thing, because that's what we're supposed to do: provide benefits for the veterans. That's what we're here for. Over some 90% of what is spent at Veterans Affairs is spent on services to veterans.

Also, on the allocation of funds, if Veterans Affairs in the allocation of funds is short of funds, the government is obliged to supply the funding. There's always a question of estimation on how much will be needed, but I think there was a lapse last year.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

We actually had to ask for an additional $300 million.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

It was $300 million, and of course it came. Sometimes there is some left over. Now because of the vote in the House, it's been reverted back to be used by Veterans Affairs, all of which is helpful.

Do we have all the problems solved? No, we haven't. Do we have a wait-list of more than we should have? Yes, we do. Are we continuing to work on it? Yes, we are. We want to digitize the process. We want to make it faster. That's what we're attempting to do. We are hiring more staff, all of which makes it better for veterans. That's what we're trying to do.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

In October 2016, I understand that the earnings loss benefit increased from 75% to 90% of veterans' pre-release salary to encourage them to complete rehabilitation programs. Do you think this provides enough incentive for veterans to complete their rehabilitation programs?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Quite honestly, you never repay somebody who is in that situation, but what Veterans Affairs has done, what the government has done has made it better. It was increased from 75% to 90% just to put more money in the pockets of veterans. That is why that was done.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Okay, thank you.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

There are many other programs that they can apply to.

Walt, do you want to add to that?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Yes, just to say, sir, that what has been really powerful has been going from the earnings loss benefit of 75% to 90% of pre-release gross income for the sailor, soldier, airman and airwoman veteran, and then evolving that into the new pension for life model where we have been able to simplify and consolidate the benefits into the income replacement benefit. Again, that's what the veterans were asking for.

For those veterans who require medical treatment, for those who are going through vocational rehabilitation, they will be financially sound and solid, and be able to support their families while they're going through that, and not have that burden or anxiety as they go through that process. Then, if they cannot return to meaningful employment, we will continue on with that income replacement benefit, which is benchmarked at 90% but then indexed to the consumer price index.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Plus 1%.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Some feedback we've heard is that case managers often have an excessive load with too many clients. As of March 2018, the number I have here is 32.9 clients per case manager, and the department has recommended reducing that to 25 clients per case manager. Can you give us any ballpark figure as to when you think you may be able to achieve that ratio?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I can tell you that we're working full time in order to get to that ratio. You understand the situation that we inherited. We had less than 200. We now have just under 500, between 450 and 500. That's so vitally important. We're working hard to make sure that we get the ratio to 25:1, but to tell you exactly the date we get there—no. We're working continually.

Perhaps Walt can give an estimation. It's hard to give an estimation when you're not sure just what you're going to face, but we're working very hard to do that.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Sir, thanks for the question. It goes back to Madam Blaney's question a little bit.

Again, the influx of veterans coming in is the one thing we don't control. We want to welcome veterans with open arms as they come in and provide them the support they require based upon the complexity of their needs and the risk that they're at.

We were able to get some surge funding for a few years as we transition to this new pension for life model. We're now looking at how this pension for life is rolling out and the nature of the clients that we have, ensuring that the case management is there for those people at the high risk level. At the same time, we are creating a new responsibility for our veterans service agents, something that we've piloted very effectively called guided support.

Those veterans who are at a medium or lower level of risk will be provided guided support by the veterans service agents, and as the veterans who are at a higher risk progress and achieve their objectives, obviously the risk and complexity diminishes. When they're ready, we're able to graduate them from case management to the veterans service agent guided support. At the same time, as the minister indicated, we are onboarding additional case manager social workers. We've put in place a pretty rigorous training program, and as they ramp up—and I'm sure that the assistant deputy minister will be able to provide some—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Sorry, we're running out of time. Could you just finish that in a couple of seconds, please?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

We want to make sure the best trained folks are out there supporting our veterans.