Veterans Affairs Committee on June 2nd, 2016

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Most of my interest has been in this RCMP, simply because I was raised by a Mountie and I know some of the issues regarding what my father dealt with after 24 years, and heard the stories of some of his colleagues and what they went through.

I agree with what you said, Mr. Jenkins. I think PTSD has been around a long time. My uncles who served in World War II had lots of stories of soldiers who came back and started drinking, beating their families, and “accidentally” shooting themselves while cleaning their guns. So we know that it's been around for a long time, and everyone pretended it wasn't.

[Gordon Jenkins]

I completely agree.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Yes, and it's always been there.

In the RCMP, in 2014, there was what they called a five-year mental health strategy. Do you think that is having any effect on improving the mental health care for RCMP members or veterans, or is it too soon to tell?

[Mark Gaillard]

Of course, I'm not in the RCMP. I'm in the RCMP Veterans' Association, and so I cannot speak specifically about how programs and operations within the force are proceeding.

Anecdotally, there has been a lot of emphasis on the Road to Mental Readiness training, which was taken up after it had initially been piloted by the Canadian Armed Forces. Then it was a pilot project I think in Nova Scotia. Now it's being applied force-wide.

I think there's some emphasis that is now going into using Road to Mental Readiness-type training and resiliency training. It will go into the cadet curriculum at Depot Division in Regina, Saskatchewan, so that members, as they come into the RCMP, are better prepared to face some of the mental health issues that they will inevitably confront during the course of their career.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Again, I appreciate that you're not in the force, but you have experience with veterans, even recent veterans.

Are you finding with your veterans over time, the ones who are transitioning to veterans more recently, that the stigma of mental health is starting to decline, or would you say it's the same as it ever was?

[Mark Gaillard]

That's a very hard question to answer, and I'm not sure I can, whether it's more, less, or the same. The kinds of people who are in the RCMP now are different from those who had been in many years before. Women have only been able to become members of the RCMP starting in 1974. There is a transition to the newer generation that tends to not, as much as the older generation, stay for a full 35 years for the one career. They're more mobile in their career choices.

I think the average age of cadets coming into recruit training now is about 28 or 29. Some of them had considerable civilian careers before they joined the force. That was not always the case because an 18-year-old guy would come in out of high school and go right into the RCMP.

The downstream impact of that, in terms of mental health issues, is different. I think this is where the research that is being conducted now, not only into the RCMP but into the first responder community generally, is going to help us understand much better how the mental health pathologies work their way through that veteran population, not only the future veterans or those who are transitioning from the force to retirement or post-release, but also those who have gone before, many years before, who continue to suffer in silence.

We see the impacts in terms of homelessness and social isolation, as well as addiction, as being issues going forward.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

One and a half minutes.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you. Touching on addiction, we do know—again, I'm a physician, so I'm very cognizant of the fact that substance issues and mental illness go hand in hand. Sometimes a substance abuse problem is actually the first manifestation that there's an underlying mental health issue.

In Veterans Affairs, would you say that members are receiving adequate treatment if they are diagnosed with any substance abuse issues or addiction issues?

[Mark Gaillard]

Are you talking about Veterans Affairs providing—

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Yes, or RCMP veterans. Are they receiving, from Veterans Affairs, adequate treatment for substance abuse problems?

[Mark Gaillard]

I'm not sure I can answer that question, either, whether it's adequate or not. I think there's a growing understanding. As I said before, the RCMP is now looking at its mental health strategy through its Road to Mental Readiness. Its occupational health and safety strategies are looking more closely at the issues that emerge, the symptomatic issues that emerge from mental health issues, of which addiction or substance abuse is one of the red flags that is raised that there may be issues with respect to that.

I think as we go forward, and the research becomes more robust, and we have more longitudinal epidemiological kinds of studies on that, it will become clear whether there's an adequacy or an inadequacy in treatment, counselling, etc.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Ms. Lockhart.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Thank you to all three groups for being here. When I saw the list of who we were having, I was thinking it was pretty diverse.

The one thing that all three of you have mentioned is the transition from military to civilian.

Mr. Jenkins, you pontificated very well that change in culture.

Mr. Blackwolf, you mentioned a staged release. I'm just wondering if you could expand on that idea a little.

[Richard Blackwolf]

We've been advocates of that since we became aware of some of our members who were being released medically, because at times they could be there for two years.

I'll give you an example. A young lady was driving a vehicle, a small Jeep. There was a bus and suicide bomber arrived there and blew the whole thing up and killed the person right beside her, broke both her wrists and her back, but she got out, got her rifle—and they also killed 30 other people around there. But she came back and went through a lot of treatment, but back at her unit, they didn't know what to do with her. They can't be employed or anything. That's when we started thinking, This is where VAC should come in. The person should be starting on their training. They should have an account, and the transition should start there. They're going to be in the armed forces for probably a year or two.

People just releasing normally or having no illnesses should still have a VAC account. They should have a card, and when they release they can put that in their drawer if necessary. For other ones with what we would not call severe disabilities, it should be the same thing, a staged release, so they can actually start their training for the transition courses. They can actually start there in the military, because the military doesn't really have any work for them. So they could be working on that and release out.

That's why we're saying staging it out. But when people leave, they should have their VAC account, card in hand, and carry on from there.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Mr. Jenkins.

[Gordon Jenkins]

PTSD is a two-edged sword because the more publicity we give it with the veterans, the more difficult it is for a veteran. When they walk in the door of a company, a business, they get a rip, “Oh, you're a veteran. We're going to have problems with you.”

It's a hard balance and, Mark, you touched on that.

[Alaina Lockhart, Liberal, Fundy Royal, NB]

Mr. Gaillard, perhaps you could tell us what the transition looks like for the RCMP, too. That's a different perspective for us.

[Mark Gaillard]

Yes, it is. As I said, the transition model for the RCMP not the same as it is with the Canadian Armed Forces. Traditionally and historically, members would join and would have a full career, would go to 35 years, sometimes beyond, and there would not be this issue of transitioning from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police into civilian life.

There's also the difference that, of course, the RCMP are not soldiers, they police, so they already are in a civilian environment. I've always said that the RCMP are always deployed, but never in garrison. They go with their families into their areas of operation, which are their communities in which they serve, and they do not think of themselves as separate from society. The idea that you transition from small-town life to small-town life in and out of the RCMP is not as stark as it is for those releasing from the military.

This was a challenge to us because of the RCMP's unique culture and traditions and folk ways. Our challenge is to convince RCMP members that they are in fact veterans, and that is a surprise to many of them to think of themselves in that way. When they envision a veteran, they're thinking of people like Mr. Blackwolf and Mr. Jenkins here. That's who they imagine as a veteran. They do not imagine themselves as being a veteran. Therefore, it does not occur to them in every case that they should be approaching Veterans Affairs Canada for help when they need it.

This touches on the other question about addiction, etc., because it is not the way of the RCMP members to go to Veterans Affairs if they need help and assistance with their transition or with issues related to their service. This is what we want to turn around, and I think this committee can play a large role in that, in convincing or popularizing the aspect that the RCMP, under the “one veteran, one standard” model are in fact charter members of that veterans community, and they have every right and entitlement. They should be able to benefit from that relationship with Veterans Affairs Canada.

It's not so much the transition issue, because they're already in a civilian-like environment, so there's not that same kind of transition for someone in the military going from uniform to nothing or from the barracks to civvy street. It is not as stark as that, and it's due to the dispersal and the unique history of the RCMP. It's a police force, but it's all across Canada, and it's in every community. We're fully integrated into the civilian so-called community beforehand.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Clarke.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here this morning. It is very much appreciated.

Thank you for your military service.

Mr. Gaillard, I just wanted to clarify that the RCMP veterans who have access to VAC benefits, programs, and services are the RCMP veterans who have physical or mental injuries. Is it only them? I mean, your normal retirement pension is another story; it's not from the VAC ministry.

[Mark Gaillard]

That is correct. Part II of the RCMP Superannuation Act states that if a member or a former member of the RCMP—regular and civilian members only—has had a service-related injury or illness that leads to a permanent disability, then through the Pension Act they are entitled to a benefit. That is under the RCMP's responsibility to do that. However, over time, that has been contracted out to Veterans Affairs Canada to provide that service, including adjudication, distribution of benefits, appeal rights to the VRAB, etc. It's all connected to that section in the RCMP Superannuation Act that relates to the Pension Act.

This is an important note. As the new Veterans Charter came into being, only three groups of veterans were left under the old Pension Act regime. That would be World War II and Korean War veterans, pre-2006 Canadian Armed Forces veterans, and the RCMP. Those first two groups over time will decline, for obvious reasons. The RCMP group will continue to grow. As we understand more about mental health as an injury and a disability, that number will likely explode over the next few years. So here is a portion of the former pre-new Veterans Charter system still in existence and still growing.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That's very interesting. You're answering my second question about whether or not the RCMP is included in the post-2006 new charter. They're not.

[Mark Gaillard]

They are not.