Evidence of meeting #26 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was rcmp.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Commissioner Daniel Dubeau  Deputy Commissioner, Chief Human Resources Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Commissioner Stephen White  Assistant Chief Human Resources Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police
Pierre Lebrun  Director General, National Compensation Services, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

3:30 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

I will call the meeting to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), and motion adopted on February 25, the committee is resuming its study of service delivery to veterans. The second hour will be dedicated to in camera future committee business.

Today I'd like to welcome from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Mr. Dubeau, deputy commissioner, chief human resources officer; Mr. White, assistant chief human resources officer; and Mr. Lebrun, director general, national compensation services.

Today we'll start with 10 minutes of testimony from the witnesses, and then we will go into questioning.

Welcome, all. We'll let you start. Thank you.

3:30 p.m.

Deputy Commissioner Daniel Dubeau Deputy Commissioner, Chief Human Resources Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair, and members of the committee.

First of all, I'd like to thank you all for your ongoing examination of benefits afforded our serving and retired members of the RCMP who have been injured on duty and for your invitation to be here today.

As the chair noted, I'm deputy commissioner Dan Dubeau. I'm here in my role as chief human resources officer. Steve is here in his role as assistant commissioner and assistant CHRO, but also as our national mental health champion, and Mr. Lebrun is here in the role of director general, national compensation services, which takes care of all our compensation benefits administered through VAC.

As Canada's national police force, the RCMP provides front-line policing services at the municipal, provincial, territorial and international levels, working in urban, rural and remote locations.

In many communities the RCMP is the primary and at times the only first responder. RCMP members are called upon to respond to a variety of situations, including criminal incidents, traffic accidents, fires, medical emergencies, and search and rescue efforts. By virtue of their duties, our members are continuously engaged in police operations and are regularly exposed to a multitude of hazards, including physical, chemical, biological, and psychological hazards that put them at risk for various occupational injuries and diseases.

These injuries may manifest themselves in the form of hearing deficiencies, operational stress injuries, and musculoskeletal injuries such as back and knee injuries. These injuries are attributed to, for the most part, hazardous occurrences resulting from assaults and violent acts from members of the public, falls, lifting and exertion, motor vehicle accidents, training-related accidents, and exposure to harmful substances and environments.

In this regard, based on Veterans Affairs Canada statistics for 2014 to 2016, the top four medical disabilities for RCMP clients are hearing loss, tinnitus, PTSD, and lumbar disc disease.

Furthermore, the RCMP has since undertaken an in-depth analysis of incidents causing injuries to its members. One of the tangible actions resulting from this analysis was the implementation of a risk-prevention program.

It is therefore an area of primary concern for the RCMP in our efforts to support the health and well-being of our members and to address this complex issue.

Our work is focused on prevention as well as providing support for members who are injured. In this regard, since the launch of its mental health strategy in 2014, the RCMP has undertaken considerable work to reduce stigma around mental health and to implement concrete strategies to promote wellness within its workplace.

At the core of our efforts, we continue to rely on our mental health champions, identified nationally, Stephen White, and in every division. Since appointed in July 2014, they have become leaders and supporters for rolling out national initiatives, for providing consistency, and for implementing local activities to respond to their distinct needs. Our approach of leading from the top and ensuring commitment and engagement from senior leaders demonstrates to employees that mental health is a key priority for this organization.

The RCMP recognizes that when its members fall ill or are injured, case management activities must take into account the very specific physical and psychological demands of police work as well as the variable nature of the policing environment. RCMP officers must regain a physical and psychological level of function that exceeds what is required for most members of the public. In this regard, under Assistant Commissioner White's leadership, the RCMP is investing in an enhanced disability management program for its members.

The program reflects industry practices in disability management, and in particular, a focus on early intervention activities to support members in their recovery and maintain their connection to the workplace. Once fully implemented in April 2017, this program will be supported by 30 disability management advisers across the force who will work proactively with members, supervisors, and divisional occupational health teams to coordinate support for early intervention and the return-to-work and accommodation planning process.

The RCMP is also in the process of acquiring disability case management and business intelligence software that will support case management activities in accordance with privacy requirements. This software will also provide ongoing program evaluation and trends analysis. This will inform prevention and wellness activities to support members' health.

For serving members and former members with an operational stress injury, Veterans Affairs Canada provides assessment, treatment, and support services through operational stress injury clinics. The RCMP has also entered into a partnership with the Department of National Defence so that the RCMP may access a DND network of clinics called operational trauma and stress support centres.

Former RCMP members who have an operational stress injury, or OSI, can access the network of operational trauma and stress support centres of Veterans Affairs Canada. RCMP members also have access to the assistance services of Veterans Affairs, which provides mental health services 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

Furthermore, VAC offers a wide variety of programs of choice to former RCMP members, such as aids for daily living, dental services, medical services, medical supplies, occupational therapy, and psychological counselling, just to name a few.

On June 7, 2016, the Veterans Ombudsman released a report entitled “Supporting Ill and Injured RCMP Members and their Families: A Review”. This report contains an extensive list of benefits currently available to our serving members, our veterans, and our RCMP families. In addition to identifying the full spectrum of currently available services, the ombudsman indicated that, according to his projections, over the next five years the number of serving and discharged VAC RCMP clients is expected to increase by 20% and the number of RCMP members' survivors is expected to almost double. We thank the ombudsman for shedding additional light on the evolving needs of our RCMP veteran population.

In addition, the ombudsman stated in a press release, “Working conditions for RCMP members can be extremely challenging, and often dangerous. This can result in physical and psychological injuries, illness or death.”

In other words, our members, contrary to those of other agencies, are continuously deployed throughout their service, and that increases the risk of workplace accidents.

The ombudsman's report allows us to better identify the gaps between the services currently available and the needs of our serving members, our veterans, and their families. We have begun this review and we are working in close collaboration with our colleagues at Veterans Affairs Canada to determine whether changes need to be made to the support and services provided to RCMP members, veterans, and families.

The RCMP has also engaged its veterans' association in assessing the current service offering and to ensure that the needs of RCMP veterans are met. The RCMP has established an advisory committee with our veterans, and they have already begun identifying their priorities. Our veterans are closely examining how the recent mandate letters from our Prime Minister to the ministers of Veterans Affairs, Public Safety and National Defence affect them, and together we are identifying how we can best recognize the sacrifice made by our first responders and our veterans.

In addition, for our serving members, the RCMP's occupational health services offer a broad range of workplace health-related services that contribute to a safe and healthy workplace. These services are delivered by a team of professionals, which includes physicians who are our health services officers, psychologists, and nurses. This multidisciplinary team contributes to health evaluations of our members, participates in disability case management, and supports service delivery of our programs that have a health component. The health services officers and psychologists support the professional services in their respective scope of practice, including the review of medical information and acting as liaison with community providers when external examinations are required or with a member's own caregiver when health information is required in regard to the administration of occupational health programs.

With respect to health evaluations, the periodic health assessment is first conducted at the recruitment stage, and then at specific intervals, ranging from yearly for high-risk positions to every three years. These assessments are conducted to ensure a member is medically and mentally fit to safely perform his or her duty in a capable manner without harm to himself or herself or undue risk to other members and the public. Other health assessments are conducted in relation to specific assignments or as part of the disability case management process. The health services officer provides recommendations with respect to a member's medical fitness for duty and may include limitations and restrictions, in addition to providing return-to-work planning and input into the accommodation process.

While our psychologists actively contribute to the disability management process, they also proceed with follow-up and requests for employer-mandated psychological assessments, and are involved in determining accommodation needs when return to work is planned.

RCMP psychologists provide oversight on all psychological services provided to members by external providers. Finally, they are at the forefront of the post-critical incident debriefings and interventions.

The RCMP is continually trying to improve its programs and activities in order to reduce the incidence of mental illness and injury among its members, and to mitigate the harmful effects on their families and on police operations.

As an employer, the RCMP needs to know how it can mitigate and reduce operational stress injuries. In this regard, the RCMP is proposing a longitudinal research study that will examine the primary mental health diagnoses impacting our members, identify the root causes and competing organizational factors, and evaluate the effectiveness of evidence-based interventions.

This approach will allow the RCMP as an employer to identify areas within its sphere of influence and control, to adopt strategic and targeted interventions with the maximum potential to meaningfully and positively mitigate the contributing factors to PTSD and associated mental health conditions impacting our officers. I dare say when RCMP officers do fall ill or injured, it is critical for their recovery.

That means doing everything reasonable to help the officer recover and remain at work or return to duty as soon as it is safe to do so. This is not an easy task. Case management activities for RCMP members must take into account the very specific physical and psychological demands of our work as well as the variable nature of the complete environment. Police officers must regain a physical and psychological level of functioning that exceeds that required of most members of the public. Strong occupational health and case management activities are therefore required to support their recovery.

To support this goal, we are enhancing our disability case management activities, which are critical to supporting members' recovery and return to work. A primary focus of our efforts will be on early intervention. We want to reach out to our members early on to ensure they are able to access services, that we maintain a member's connection to our workplace, and that we facilitate the appropriate exchange of information required to accommodate a member's ability to remain at or return to work as soon as it is safe to do so.

Finally, we are in the early stages of assessing general duty constable tasks for hazard exposure, with the intent of identifying corrective measures to mitigate and eliminate those hazards, where possible. We have implemented the national standard of Canada for psychological health and safety in the workplace in our health and safety program. This standard includes psychological health and safety hazards in the workplace.

Prevention, support, and care are key to supporting our workforce. While the RCMP is cognizant of the financial cost of absence, our main focus remains on the human cost. As a police service, we need to ensure our members are healthy and fully operational so that we can deliver on our mandate and keep Canadians safe.

Thank you for this opportunity to participate in your discussions today.

We would be happy to answer your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Thank you.

We'll start with the first round, Mr. Kitchen.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you all for coming to visit us again. We appreciate your coming back and having the additional opportunity to chat.

I've spent the last 30 years of my life treating a lot of RCMP officers in my practice as a chiropractor. Fortunately, it's nice to see that lumbar disc disease is your fourth priority, as I've had to deal with that many times.

Regrettably, we see that PTSD is an issue. I'm wondering if you can comment a little more on that. It's obviously something we're very interested in, and in particular, when we're dealing with your officers when they return from theatre. I wonder if you could comment on that. Do you have any numbers you could provide us with, percentages you might see, and the steps or the procedures that you might follow with an individual?

3:45 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

It's a very good question to ask. Today I can't provide specific numbers returning from theatre, but I could get those numbers to the committee if you would like to see them.

I can tell you the prevalence in the organization, going through our VAC colleagues and watching statistics coming in, it's really based on the pensions and services that have been provided. We know right now, in all, serving and retired members are at about 3,900-plus. Members who have been diagnosed with PTSD or another related operational stress injury are one of our top three injuries.

We're putting in place all kinds of strategies. The number is quite high and it has been trending up over the last two to three years. I believe it's because of the efforts that we're making about getting this out. DND led the way on this, but the RCMP are getting the message out that it is important that we do have this.

When members are about to be deployed to theatre, they undergo assessments. Their wives and families are invited to the assessment phase, as well as when they return, depending on which theatre it is. I'll get you the list. From Afghanistan there was a closing off period where we gave them some time off, as well as those in the assessment phase. Then, subsequent to that, they can go every month, or as need be, depending on what the diagnosis is. We do bring them back and make sure they're okay.

3:45 p.m.

Assistant Commissioner Stephen White Assistant Chief Human Resources Officer, Royal Canadian Mounted Police

We have quite a regime of available services and support to our members with regard to PTSD or other operational stress injuries. It goes right from the very beginning to where we have now national peer-to-peer programs. There are 20 full-time coordinators and 380 advisers across the country who are very well informed of all the services that are available to assist members with PTSD or mental health, and where those services are.

On top of that, we have our own 11 occupational health and safety offices across the country. Within the RCMP, we have doctors, psychologists, and nurses. After that, we have access to the Government of Canada, Health Canada employee assistance program, which we are using. We are seeing an increase with our membership using that.

We also have access to the VAC operational stress injury clinics, which we are getting very good use out of. We are seeing the numbers increase there. As the deputy said earlier, we also have access to National Defence operational and trauma stress support centres for even more specialized programs and services with regard to PTSD and mental health.

We also have access to the Canadian Forces operational stress injury social support program. This is very much a peer-to-peer program, specifically for individuals with mental health, PTSD-related issues. We're actually running our own pilot program right now within the RCMP to potentially develop our own operational stress injury social support program.

At the end of it, as well, as the deputy already mentioned, we're building a very robust disability management and accommodation program. Even at the early stages of identifying, or when one of our members is being diagnosed with PTSD or an issue related to mental health, operational stress injury specifically, we'll have the resources right across the country with specially trained disability management advisers. They will engage at a very early stage and work with our members right from the early intervention, making sure they are getting access to the resources and support services they need, hopefully, enabling them to stay at work. If they do need to go off work, they will stay engaged with our members while they are off work to ensure that during that period there's ongoing contact with the workforce. They're then positioned for a very smooth transition back into the workplace, if that happens.

3:45 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

One of the things we've gone through in the studies is an introduction.... What we've heard a lot of times, when we're dealing with VAC, is how do we get this done beforehand. How do we educate the soldier right from day one about the process they have to access for services once they retire?

I come from Saskatchewan, so Depot is very familiar to me. In Depot, do you spend time educating your officers on the steps that would happen during that training program, or does that happen once they start into the force?

3:50 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

No, and that's one of the gaps we've noticed. What we've done in the last couple of years under Pierre's leadership is we have a liaison officer sitting with Veterans Affairs. We've been working on this outreach program trying to educate our members on how this works, that if they are going to apply to VAC, to set up a My VAC Account, and what that means. We've all worked on that, and we've all worked with the veterans on how they can get that.

We also have several other partners. We've had the Legion come to the table. We're seeing if we can expand our network to educate our people, because DND is very well educated on this. We're finding there's a gap, but we're getting better.

As they go through the service, now that they understand about VAC pensions, the members are reaching out to our people a lot more. There's a lot more information out there. They're getting very well educated. As we go along—the future state—we're going to try to get into a formalized partnership with the Legion, our veterans, to get that up.

The last piece of it is the Veterans Review and Appeal Board. They talked to us over the summer and are giving us some feedback on our application packages. One thing they noticed is the applications for our members are not as fulsome as they noticed with DND, which shows the gap there. They're even providing, through Pierre, and Superintendent Boughen, some stuff that we can maybe get out to our members which says that if they are going to apply, what they are going to need.

Our biggest gap we're finding is with our health files. For years, since we've had our own health files, our members might not have been documenting injuries, because it didn't matter which injury it was. Because of that, and because we use private practitioners, the health file is not as fulsome as it should be. It's either sitting with a private practitioner.... If that private practitioner retires or gets elected to Parliament, that file may no longer be there, and that's something we need.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Thank you.

Could you give us an indication, in numbers or percentages, of the full career retiree, if you will, or of those who choose to leave to seek another career, and of those who are unable to continue their careers? Can you give us a sense of how many people actually retire out of the service?

3:50 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

As to how many retire early, I can't give you the specific stats. I can tell you that the attrition rates for most of our female members—the average time at which they retire, unless it's changed—is after about 28 years' service. Our male members are going for 35 years.

Contrary to the case with DND, our members usually go for the full service. We're noticing that in the first 20 years, you don't see much difference in attrition. I can get you very specific stats. We do follow that.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

That's good.

3:50 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

Then further on, our members are lifers, and most of them retire at full pension.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

An interesting comparison is of universality of service with the military. Obviously, in your presentation you're speaking about how to—

3:50 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

—accommodate.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

—accommodate injuries and so on.

3:50 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

Yes, we accommodate as much as we can. We do not have universality of service. We are in human rights. We do a lot of accommodations, either short-term or long-term. That's something we're constantly looking at, asking how we can better accommodate, how we can go forward on this.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

I'm curious. Of the four health issues, two of them—obviously, there's PTSD and so on—hearing loss and tinnitus, where does that come from?

3:50 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

We're looking into that. It can be coming, we think, either from firearms in the past.... We didn't have as much hearing protection when we went to shoot. When I was in Saskatchewan, we would go out to the open range and we didn't have hearing protection. That's one thing that's being looked at. You hear stories of members putting the old .38 shells in their ears. That's what they would use.

That lack of hearing protection could be one of the causes. The other cause could possibly be the wind.... We don't really know why. We just know that we've improved the hearing protection. Now we really stress in our reports, when we see this, that when you go to a range now, you have to have hearing protection. We're actually telling people to put the earphones on.

Because of a lack of standards, that's what happened. We're hoping that over time we resolve this through better equipment and better education of our members, telling them that over time they will lose their hearing, that it will go down.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

In terms of service, we know that the RCMP are spread all over the place, such as Dawson Creek, British Columbia. My son is there.

In terms of service access from remote areas like that, do a lot of your retirees stay in the smaller communities they might have served?

3:55 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

I'd have to ask our vets association for those stats. Our retirees will usually retire near their kids. I'm speaking for myself, probably; I wouldn't be able to tell you, but we have a sprinkling. We have a lot of people.... Our east coasters go back home. Many people seem to like Vancouver Island. That seems to be a trend now for our officers.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

In the ex-military context, it's hard for veterans to access services.

3:55 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

Yes.

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

It seems to be a little different for the RCMP. How are you explaining the 20% increase in attrition? It was anticipated that—

3:55 p.m.

D/Commr Daniel Dubeau

—oh, an increase in claims?

3:55 p.m.

Liberal

Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON

Yes.