Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 20th, 2016

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Can you go into some of the differences between the transition process for a Canadian Forces member and an RCMP member and what benefits we might be able to change or recommendations we can make to make it easier?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

On the benefit piece, as I indicated earlier, that's something we are talking to our vets about, because now Veterans Affairs, under the mandate of its minister, is looking at everything. They're looking at everything. We're working very closely with them and they've been very open, and so has DND, and we're sitting at the table.

Now we're looking at all the benefits that we provide, because we are still under the Pension Act. We still have pensions. We have a totally different mechanism to pay people, because it's still the RCMP through a grant to Veterans Affairs and a MOU that administers it on our behalf. That's the discussion now: what's missing or what enhancements we would like to see.

We've already heard from our vets about a couple of enhancements. One would be in regard to marriage after age 60. It's the same thing for us. If our members marry after age 60, suddenly their spouses are not allowed to get the benefits. That's something that has been brought to our attention. Our vets have talked about that, that it's important to them.

Another one is obviously the increase in the survivor's pension from 50% to 70%, which has been in the mandate letter. Our vets are very interested in that. As we work with them, we're trying to identify what's key to the RCMP veterans, because we're all going to be veterans one day. We find out what's key to our serving members so that we're able to ask for those things.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Okay, thank you.

My final question, and forgive me if you've already touched on this, concerns one of the problems we've heard from veterans being released. Post-release, they have a hard time managing or winding their way through the system to access the benefits and to have somebody on their side who they can talk to, an easy point of contact.

We've heard that one of the things that might be beneficial is to have a concierge service, a one-stop shop where they can talk to somebody who will help them find solutions to their problems. Do you feel that would be beneficial to retiring or releasing RCMP officers? Do you have any comment on that?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

I think anything that would be given would be beneficial. Something like that would definitely help. That's something we haven't heard from our vets, but we will ask our associations whether that is an issue with us where our members are not sure how to navigate through this. Any enhancements that could provide our members more information and help them through a process would definitely be most welcome.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Okay, thank you. Those are my questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much for being here today.

My first question is on your road to mental readiness training. They start that right away when they're part of the force. We look at what our RCMP members do, and there are a lot of different roles they play. One of those is peacekeeping. We have a situation coming up where you're being asked to contribute to that as well, correct? There must be crossover between DND and your services in some scenarios where you're facing obviously similar circumstances. With mental illness and mental injuries, do you see a difference for those peacekeepers in comparison to the force at home as far as what they would need is concerned and whether this route you're taking is sufficient for them?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

The road to mental health readiness is based on the DND training. We have taken what DND has developed, because they were very open to that, and the Canadian Mental Health Association designed the course. We took that course. Calgary police have taken that course. They modified it for police work, but it's a very similar concept. This is the base foundational piece. It's not more than that. It's just to give you an awareness.

When we are on deployment, as I said, there are pre-deployment briefings. There is assessment pre-deployment and post-deployment, to ensure that our members are okay. That's where you will probably see more of these specific types of training. In Afghanistan, they would have a different type: “Here is what's happening in Afghanistan. Here is the stuff you'll see.” Then they would have a cooling-off period coming back, because of what they might have seen. Every mission is a little different.

Our international police are the ones who do that piece and ensure that our members have what's needed as they reach into the field. You're right. They are working side by side with our military colleagues. Kudos to our military colleagues at DND. They have been very open to helping us in our challenges and supporting our members when they are out in the field.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay, very good.

I am also from Saskatchewan—born in Regina—and my riding is very large, with a lot of rural. I have retired veterans and RCMP throughout. However, what we are finding is that there aren't services for our veterans in our province. You are talking about the university and working together. There would probably be a huge advantage to the RCMP veterans and our Canadian Armed Forces veterans having an OSI clinic in Saskatchewan with some kind of a satellite program to enable them to have the services we should have there for them.

One veteran told me last week that they pay for him to take a taxi to go three hours from his town, take a flight, and all these things, when, of course, he would much rather be served at home. We have no idea of the scope, of how many of those circumstances are taking place, so just a little more feedback on our rural areas...not just Saskatchewan. We have many.

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

I agree. That's something that...as we drill down and talk to our vets as we look at our programs. Obviously, OSI offices are not ours. They are with the military. I know they have one in Winnipeg. I agree, the more we can get to our members.... Now we are looking at what we can get to our members and how we can access it locally. We are hoping to work with whichever institution or university gets our contract to look at how otherwise to deploy services to where you are. If you are in Assiniboia, and you have to get the service, we want to make sure we somehow get you that service.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I don't know if you sense this or not, but when those services aren't available, it raises issues with mental health.

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

Oh, yes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

We would be helping ourselves significantly by incorporating something like that.

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

I agree.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I have another question.

You talked about how active servicemen use the DND OSI clinics, and the veterans use the veterans program. That's the same pool of people, eventually, because you are active, and then you're not. Do you have any feedback on their feelings about how they were served while they were with DND and then the type of service they receive once they move over to the veterans program?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

Just to clarify, I believe it's the same OSI clinic they are going to. They use the same clinics.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

There is no change, really, in services.

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

It's the same clinic and the same services.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay, thank you.

I have one more question, if I have time.

You mentioned the cost of absence. The cost is not the first priority; it's the individual. Can you explain to me what that cost of absence entails? What's provided to them while they are going through this whole process? What does it cost, in dollars, and what does it achieve, ultimately, for these individuals who are able to go back to work?

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

I will speak for the serving members when I speak of concepts.

When members are what we call off-duty sick, we don't want to affect their pay or their benefits. It's like they are working. Our health regime is such that if you are off-duty sick, you take the time you need to get back to work, so you are getting the full paycheque. You don't see any change in your paycheque or your benefits. You are completing certain things. The only difference is that if it's not a duty-related thing, at a certain point, we will stop giving you your annual leave credits, but the rest of it you will get all the way through. That's the kind of regime we have in place. You don't want somebody to be worried about that piece. You want them to get better. That's always the intent, to get them back.

We do have some projections on costs that I could get to you, if you want to see what we currently have on what we call off-duty sick, which we started tracking from day one. We do have an anticipated cost, which is up quite dramatically, because it's all the indirect costs at that point—if I am not there, Steve has to work overtime, and that's a bigger cost to us.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Even in our scenario, in one of our locations we have eight stationed there, but out of those eight, quite honestly, only four and sometimes only two are actually available based on maternity leave and all the other issues that of course are involved in quality of life and that type of thing.

We've heard that there will be an increase.... There's an understanding that we need more RCMP in our rural locations, and that impacts the mental health and the wellness and the protection of....

In your dream team, say for Saskatchewan, what would you be looking for by way of additional forces, realistically?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

We'll have to keep it to a very short answer, please.

[D/Commr Daniel Dubeau]

All I can tell you is that I can get you what we have on the ground, and we can give you funded vacancies.

What we're doing is we're going to Depot.... Right now we're going to 34 troops this year, with about 32 people per troop. We've made the decision to go to 40 troops by 2018. We're ramping up our recruiting efforts as well as our hiring efforts and training so that we get more police officers out on the street.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Rioux.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome. Thank you for your presence and the valuable information you will provide to us. That will help us improve the services.

I am a new member of this committee. So I am not as knowledgeable as my learned colleagues.

I see that you do a lot of prevention work. So far, I am under the impression that you are working on prevention much more than National Defence. That's an impression. Could that be?