Evidence of meeting #30 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was illness.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Hugh MacKay  Surgeon General, Commander, Canadian Forces Health Services Group, Department of National Defence
Andrew Downes  Director, Mental Health, Department of National Defence

3:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

I call the meeting to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion to adopt on September 29, the committee resumes its study of mental health and suicide prevention among veterans.

Today, our witnesses, from the Department of National Defence, are Brigadier-General Hugh MacKay, surgeon general, and Colonel Andrew Downes, director of mental health.

We'll start off with presentations for 10 minutes, and then we'll go into questions. I hope we can get through a couple of rounds. Without delay, we'll turn the floor over.

3:40 p.m.

Brigadier-General Hugh MacKay Surgeon General, Commander, Canadian Forces Health Services Group, Department of National Defence

Mr. Chairman, and members of the House Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, as surgeon general, I am responsible for the delivery of health services, the provision of deployable health services capabilities to support operations, and the provision of health advice to the Canadian Armed Forces.

I am very pleased to be back and to have the opportunity to speak with you about how we care for members of the Canadian Armed Forces who have mental illnesses and how we work with Veterans Affairs Canada to facilitate transition for those leaving the Canadian Armed Forces.

Members of the regular force are not covered under provincial health care plans. For this reason, the Canadian Armed Forces has its own comprehensive health system that addresses the health needs of members wherever they may be stationed in Canada or abroad. Health services are provided predominantly in our 37 health services centres and detachments across the country and in Europe. In addition to the care provided at the health services centres, we also purchase care from the civilian sector, particularly specialist services and hospital-based treatments that are not available internally.

On operations, Canadian Forces Health Services often deploy to provide health support, but there may be situations in which we work with our allies or a host nation to deliver health services.

Across the system, we have over 450 established mental health positions, including mental health nurses, social workers, psychiatrists and psychologists, within our clinics' mental health departments.

As of July 2016, 93% of these positions were filled. Staffing these positions is a dynamic process, one which is impacted by normal staff turn-over, competition with the civilian sector for mental health personnel, and challenges in recruiting personnel to some locations.

To ensure timely access to care, there is also a large network of over 5,000 civilian mental health professionals registered as external service providers to which patients can be referred.

As in the civilian health care sector, our primary care clinicians capably care for many patients with mental illness, and 31 of the 37 health services centres have some level of specialized mental health services to support the primary care clinicians and to deliver direct patient care by providing rapid access for urgent care needs, as necessary.

The seven largest clinics have operational trauma and stress support centres, or OTSSCs, which specialize in treating operational stress injuries, or OSIs. OSIs are those psychological problems that occur as a result of psychological trauma experienced during operations, which result in different diagnoses, including depression, PTSD, and substance-use disorders.

In cases of emergency after hours, Canadian Armed Forces members can contact the Canadian Forces member assistance program, or CFMAP, or a civilian crisis line. They can also go directly to a civilian emergency department or call 911. The seven OTSSCs are part of the joint network for operational stress injuries, which also includes the 11 Veterans Affairs Canada OSI clinics.

Through a tripartite MOU, this network allows for care of military members, veterans, and members or former members of the RCMP in either military or Veterans Affairs Canada facilities, when it is deemed appropriate for a given patient.

Technological advances have had a positive impact on the delivery of mental health services. In order to increase accessibility to mental health services, we have installed high definition, secure VTC systems in our clinics that are being used to provide telemental health services. These help us manage short-term health care demands in a given location and help reduce the need for some patients to travel to receive a higher level of care. They are also a way for us to ensure our ability to offer care in the language of choice, no matter where members serve.

We have also acquired a virtual reality system for use in our larger centres. This system simulates an operational environment, and it is used in exposure therapy.

The CAF is committed to ensuring that personnel suffering from mental illness have timely access to the medical care and support services necessary to either return them to duty or assist their transition to civilian life. We recognize the transition for our members as they release from the CAF can be difficult and stressful, particularly for those released for medical issues.

Canadian Armed Forces members with more complex medical needs benefit from the case management program. This program was established more than 10 years ago and offers services in all Canadian Armed Forces clinics located in Canada. Case managers are specialized nurses who are integral to the care-delivery team and who facilitate ongoing care for patients through complex periods of medical care. The intent of the case management program is to assist the CAF member in navigating the medical and administrative system. While the primary goal is to achieve a return to duty after a complex disease or injury where possible, for those members whose chronic medical conditions have led to permanent employment limitations and who do not meet universality of service, case managers assist with transition to civilian life.

Our case management program works closely with its counterparts in Veterans Affairs Canada. Moreover, analysis and work are currently being done to optimize the transition of the releasing member from the DND program to the VAC program. A working group under the VAC-CAF steering committee has been established to align programs and to analyze the elements associated with the continuum of care for members and their families in transition. The transition period around release is a critical time to ensure continuity of care for releasing members.

A standardized assessment of all transitioning CAF members is being done to determine the level of complexity involved in their transition from DND to civilian life in order to enable the handover of care to the civilian sector has taken place for those with ongoing needs.

Whenever a member is identified as having complex needs regarding transition, a multidisciplinary team works to proactively reduce or eliminate potential barriers to a smooth transition, either from a health, financial, occupational, academic or psychosocial perspective. In certain circumstances, additional transition time will be requested by the team in order to secure a safe transition. Each case is handled individually, on its own merit.

In addition to clinical care, we also have a nationally and internationally recognized mental health education and resiliency program, called road to mental readiness. There are now over 30 modules of this program, which are given at different points in a member's career, starting at basic training. We have recently expanded the program to include occupationally specific training for occupations like search and rescue technicians and military police.

Canadian Forces health services group also provides the strengthening the forces health promotion program. This important program includes education and skill development modules in areas such as suicide awareness, anger and stress management, healthy relationships, family violence, and addictions.

We continue to work with the strong support of leadership at all levels to reduce the stigma of mental illness and other barriers to care-seeking. This includes Forces-wide emails, newspaper articles, unit-level discussions and participation in events such as Bell Let's Talk. We also have produced a five-video series that addresses various topics such as stigma, transition and suicide.

Another key element of our mental health program is research. We have conducted a number of important epidemiological studies to better understand the impact of mental illness on CAF members. This includes the 2013 CF mental health survey, and the operational stress injury and outcome study.

The CAF is extremely interested in better understanding the biological underpinnings of mental illness and in exploring new treatments for PTSD and other conditions.

Much of this work is accomplished by the Canadian Military and Veterans Mental Health Centre of Excellence through collaboration with scientific experts, academia, government, private sector, and research consortia, and with NATO and our allies. Knowledge gained from leading-edge clinical research is then translated into clinical care.

My final comments will centre on suicide in the Canadian Armed Forces.

You will recall that in November 2015 we reported a trend of increased suicide rates over the preceding five years. This increase was among those serving in the army command in combat arms occupations, such as the infantry, as opposed to other commands. We've also reported that deployment is emerging as a risk factor for suicide, but it is important to stress that it is not so much the deployment itself but what some members experience during the deployment that might have an impact.

We conduct a medical review of each suicide to try to better understand the factors involved in each case and to look for opportunities to enhance our current programs. We find that about 50% of people who die by suicide have been diagnosed with one or more mental disorders, with major depressive disorder being the most prevalent condition. Typically, people also have one or more life stressors, with failing intimate partner relationships as the most common. Other factors often seen include work-related problems, debt, legal difficulties, and physical health problems.

The CAF suicide prevention program, guided by the 2009 suicide prevention expert panel, identifies three pillars of suicide prevention, namely, excellence in health care, effective leadership, and the awareness and engagement of members. We have a robust program that addresses these pillars, and we continue to make improvements.

In October 2016, we held another expert panel on suicide prevention to help guide future efforts, the results of which will be released once the report is finalized. My team will look carefully at all recommendations from this recent panel and ensure that the CAF has in place all elements of a robust suicide prevention program.

Thank you for your attention. We're happy to take any questions you may have.

3:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Thank you.

We'll start our six-minute round with Mr. Kitchen.

3:50 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for attending. It's nice to see you again, General.

On mental health, which we talk about and are starting to see more and more issues on, I just want a comment or basically an idea from you.

As soldiers, CAF members would take a bullet for their buddy. They will stand up for these people, and they're trained to be there 24-7. When they now become veterans, they still have that ingrained in them, and they get extremely upset and annoyed when they see their comrades and buddies having to deal with issues like proving time and time again that they've lost a limb or that they've had an injury. We sit there with the military assessing these soldiers, and we understand that, and they have that diagnosis when they're ready to leave. Does it not make sense that this diagnosis would be transferred to VAC so that they don't have to repeat these same things time and time again?

3:55 p.m.

BGen Hugh MacKay

The medical records of the Canadian Armed Forces personnel are in fact transferred over to Veterans Affairs Canada when we receive the request from Veterans Affairs Canada, and that includes any of the diagnoses we've made prior to their transition to Veterans Affairs Canada.

I am not in a position to comment on Veterans Affairs Canada's policy with respect to responding to the information that they ask for from those veterans.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Do you think it would be wise that the transition of that information from DND to Veterans Affairs would be simple?

We talk about closing that seam, but that doesn't seem to be happening. From my understanding and from what I'm hearing, it takes months and years for that to happen, and in fact sometimes it gets delayed because their computers aren't even in sync.

I mean, it's a programming issue, and I'm not a computer guy, but the reality is, if there's a program that has it all recorded for our soldiers, then it should be easily transferable to Veterans Affairs so that they can access it the moment a member changes.

3:55 p.m.

BGen Hugh MacKay

There has been an issue with respect to the timeline to transition the files. About two years ago we were at six to eight months, I believe, to transition a file. We put resources in place about two years ago to increase the number of people reviewing files to transition to Veteran Affairs Canada, and we're down to several weeks to two months, maybe, for transition of files.

There are issues that are not related to IT systems with respect to the transition of files; these have to do with the Privacy Act and our ability to share information from one department to another. I cannot transition the files from a military member to Veteran Affairs Canada until we've had the opportunity to go through that medical file to make sure there is no third party information in it. Once we screen the files, which is what this team does, to make sure there's no third party information present in them, we can then transition them to Veteran Affairs Canada in accordance with the Privacy Act.

3:55 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

But if a soldier signs a document before deploying and the idea is that the soldier stays within the forces until such time as everything is in Veteran Affairs, the moment they sign that document that information should be passed on. When they give informed consent, they are basically saying that they are asking you to send that document to Veteran Affairs, and they put their signature on it. They should have the right to give it and they should also have right to take it away.

That process doesn't appear to be in place.

3:55 p.m.

BGen Hugh MacKay

Members can sign informed consent for us to release the document, but it still doesn't remove my responsibility to review the file entirely for any third party information and to make sure that there is no third party information in the file when I transfer it to Veteran Affairs Canada. But I would have that member's informed consent.

It's important to remember that informed consent provided today does not necessarily mean I have their informed consent the next day. As you said, a member could remove informed consent, so we have to be careful. Signing a form as you leave on a deployment does not necessarily mean you consent when you come back from a deployment.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

That's correct, but you have that access and you know where the soldier is so they can update it from time to time, and you can ensure that the soldier is aware that they can do that, that they can manage that on their own, as well as with some guidance.

4 p.m.

BGen Hugh MacKay

As soon as a soldier asks us to transfer the file, we'll start the process to transfer the file to Veterans Affairs Canada.

4 p.m.

Conservative

Robert Gordon Kitchen Conservative Souris—Moose Mountain, SK

Thank you.

4 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Ms. Lockhart.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

Thank you.

Thank you, gentlemen, for your service. I appreciate it.

In testimony we had a few weeks ago, we heard that there weren't any formal mental health check-ins for soldiers in a theatre of war, and that those were on a voluntary basis.

Could you clarify for me whether we are performing regular mental health checks during service?

4 p.m.

BGen Hugh MacKay

Are we doing them during service?

4 p.m.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

Well, we talked about the theatre of war the last time, so what about during just regular service?

4 p.m.

BGen Hugh MacKay

We do a mental health screening for anybody who is recruited as they are coming into the forces. Then, with each periodic health assessment, there is a small section that does a screen for mental illness.

Members under forty years of age have a periodic health assessment every five years; when they're over forty years of age, they have one every two years. We also do mental health screening as people are getting ready to go off on a deployment and we do the enhanced mental health screening within three to six months after a return from a deployment.

That is the formal mental health screening that we do within the Canadian Forces health services.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

What are the small unit commanders on the ground told with respect to reporting, when mental health issues are brought to them?

4 p.m.

BGen Hugh MacKay

Our road to mental readiness program, which I referred to in my opening comments, is all about educating members of the Canadian Armed Forces and members of the chain of command about how to recognize when their soldiers or their battle buddies may be having difficulty with mental illness. They are taught to encourage them to seek help or to talk to the chain of command about getting assistance with mental illness.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

Are those conversations tracked in some manner?

4 p.m.

BGen Hugh MacKay

I'm not aware that we're tracking those conversations.

4 p.m.

Colonel Andrew Downes Director, Mental Health, Department of National Defence

If I could just jump in, I think it's very important to appreciate the limits of screening and the logistical implications that screening during a theatre of operations would bring. For this reason, we really provide a lot of training to leaders at different levels as they move through their career on how to identify people who are showing signs that they may need help, how to speak to those people, and what resources are available.

During the deployment in Afghanistan, where both General MacKay and I were deployed, we did have a mental health team based in Kandahar, which included a psychiatrist, and people had direct access to that mental health team. In addition, we had medical teams present at all the forward operating bases, with physicians and physician assistants who people could present to should they feel the need. As well, we sent out mental health providers to visit the different forward operating bases.

We did have the services available in theatre, and people did have the opportunity to access them, and through our training we were able to help them identify when they should come forward for care.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

Okay. That was on a voluntary basis, though. There was no formal check-in that they went through, right?

4 p.m.

Col Andrew Downes

That's correct.

4 p.m.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

Okay.

I want to switch gears a little and talk about the JPSUs. I know they were originally created as places for healing. I know there certainly have been successes. I took a look at the numbers, and I think between July 2010 and January 2015, 1,614 people who went through the JPSUs returned to service. However, in the same time frame, over 2,000 were released. Do we have the capabilities for healing through these joint personnel support units, and do we have the resources we need? I've heard stories of just checking in once a week and appearing once a month. Are they functioning as they should, or as they were intended to function?