Veterans Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2016

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

We are changing the culture, the idea of care, for exactly that reason. What I say to our employees when I visit the offices across the country and visit the head office is that we treat our veterans as if they're our mum, dad, sons, or daughters. What level of care do we wish to offer our own children? My three kids served.

It's what level of care and the compassion operationalized to give them the benefit of the doubt and respect them no matter what. Absolutely.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Certainly, it's important, because we heard from the Auditor General that veterans find the application process very complex when it comes to benefits and programming. They're being asked to make decisions based on something that is very hard to understand.

I wonder what actions the department—

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

We're out of time for the next question. We'll have to save it for the second round. Thank you.

Mr. Bratina.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thanks very much.

General, the person I'm going to refer to retired some time ago from the Canadian military, so the information might be out of date, but what she told me was that, as a member of the Canadian Armed Forces, she could go anywhere in the world, from Masset in Haida Gwaii, the former Queen Charlotte Islands, to Egypt, and there would be a place to meet people.

The issue was the hard landing after leaving the service. I'm not sure whether that's still the case or not, but she told me that it was interesting to be in this close-knit family for so many years and then to be outside. So now we get to the point of accessing services. As you say, in some cases it might be that some time passes before you need to even get involved with something like that.

What is the situation currently for veterans wishing to access services? There is an array of services available to them. Are they generally aware of how to access those services? We've heard about one-stop shopping.

Could you comment about the ability to actually engage again with Veterans Affairs and so on regarding services.

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

Mr. Chair, sir, your point is really well made. When we're in uniform, it is a close-knit family. With every unit, ship, or squadron you're part of, you are indeed a family. When you leave the Canadian Forces, whether it be for a medical reason, voluntarily, or retirement, it's hard. It's a cultural shock. The individual's identity really is captured by their uniform. That's what makes it so hard.

This is why an organization like the Royal Canadian Legion was created years ago. The fact is, for many folks, their soft landing is by joining an association like the Legion, or the Dominion, or the various veterans associations in order to maintain those bonds—but also, when trouble signs start to show up, so that the support is there because, especially with regard to mental health injuries, it's people around these sailors, soldiers, airmen and women who will see it first and will then say, “Hey, listen, you have to go see somebody.”

Also, through the Legions and the Dominion, we have service officers. We train them at each one of the Legions so that there are folks out there with the training. Also, we're on the web. We're now encouraging Canadian Armed Forces members early in their career to create accounts on our network called My VAC Account so that right from basic training they will have a My VAC Account and are aware of some of the services down range.

Do you want to go ahead and talk about a few of those things?

[Michel Doiron]

Your point, sir, is well taken. There are a lot of ways to access us. We have call centres. We have offices. We have agreements with Service Canada where we have services available at Service Canada also. We have the My VAC Account with over 25,000 users. So a lot of information is there, and you can do your applications.

I think one aspect of your question was around whether or they know which services to access. That's where we have to do more work to make the services simpler, easier to apply, easier to understand, and to know they are out there. That is part of the culture shift that the deputy talks about, making that information more available and more understandable. We keep trying to improve our website—there's a lot of information on the website—so that it's understandable and navigable.

It comes back to the veterans' centricity, looking at the services, looking at what we do from the veterans' perspective, not from the bureaucrats' perspective. We still have some work to do on that side.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

Thank you for that.

Expanding beyond the individual to the family—and we're here to solve problems and make things more efficient—are there notable shortcomings in understanding the family supports or the provision of them that we need to address?

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

Mr. Chair, again I think one of the challenges is that not only is every individual serving the military different, but so is the family situation because of their service and the number of tours, postings, and so on.

We know that when someone has a physical injury or a mental health injury, the family, because of a domino effect, requires support as well. So we're looking at our programs and processes to determine how we can enable those families to get the care they need so they can stay and support the injured veteran.

All of our programs and support services flow through that veteran to the family. That's what occurs in the Canadian Armed Forces and what occurs with Veterans Affairs. Again, our mandate letter enables us to look at ways and means and to make recommendations on how we enhance the care to the family so we have resilience in our veterans' families.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I don't know how much time I have let.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

You have about 20 seconds.

[Bob Bratina, Liberal, Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON]

I'll ask it on the next go around.

Thanks very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Ms. Romanado.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, General Natynczyk. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for the services you provide to our nation.

After hearing your presentation, and as a military mother of two sons serving, I'm soothed that I have someone of your calibre who gets it. The decision to enlist and to put on the uniform is something of great pride to the military and their families. Knowing that you get it, and knowing that your children are currently serving as well, brings some level of peace.

In terms of operations we know that a significant number of what we call “modern-day vets” aren't reached traditionally, the way some of our older vets are. I'd like to know if you could elaborate on some of the technology Veterans Affairs is using—I don't want to say “static” one-way communication, i.e., a website—to reach some of our vets who are in outlying regions, who don't have access, or may not be as comfortable on the phone. Could you elaborate a bit on some of the initiatives Veterans Affairs is using to reach them?

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

Thank you, madam, for the question.

That is a challenge now with young soldiers, sailors and members of the Air Force. After their service they usually do not join groups or associations like the Royal Canadian Legion.

During the Second World War and the Korean War, a lot of soldiers stayed in the area with their comrades after having been deployed. These comrades were an important source of support.

However, at this time, they find themselves side by side in a foreign country.

These men and women maintain contact with each other over the Internet through social media, but not with everybody. It's with those who were in the same firefight, in the same battle aboard ship, aboard their aircraft, or in their squadron. That's how they console each other, counsel each other, and support each other. We are fortunate in that there are a lot of leaders. These great men and women have served and learned so much, and there are social media groups that come together of cohorts to support each other. I could list a number of them. This is one of the reasons we're creating a structure of advisory groups and stakeholder groups. You may be aware that we had a successful summit of these groups here in Ottawa on December 1 and 2 with a large gathering at the War Museum. A large number of the folks who were there are the ones who are co-ordinating these peer support groups on the Internet, bringing them together, and making them aware of the resources that Michel provides over the Internet so they can connect. They're scouting and supporting each other over the Internet and how quickly can they engage back to us through our staff in order to provide those who need support with that support.

Michel.

[Michel Doiron]

We do use a bit more technology in certain realms. If I think about OSIs

In some provinces, our mental health clinics are using technology. In this way, veterans do not have to go to a clinic to receive their psychological treatment. Of course, they must go on site from time to time.

We use Telehealth to accelerate services. We are currently testing the use of similar technology with our case managers so that we may offer certain services to our people in remote areas, since we do not have offices in some regions. Sometimes there are no Service Canada offices either. Speaking to these people by telephone or through a Veterans Affairs Canada account is relevant in terms of safety; we have to make sure these people are monitored.

I don't know how far we will go, but we are testing that possibility now. We are exploring all aspects. These people are there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, but we are not, except for calls having to do with mental health.

We are attempting to improve the situation so that services are available when clients need them.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

To elaborate on what you mentioned, I agree there are a lot of grassroots initiatives on social media where folks are coming together to talk about concerns. How active are Veterans Affairs staff in monitoring these social media sites, dispelling some of the misinformation, or making sure the folks who are in crisis are being taken care of? I monitor many of these sites. I want to know how active are Veterans Affairs representatives, caseworkers, or whoever in monitoring them so they can make sure they reach out in real time to these folks who are obviously looking for support? I don't know if you can elaborate on that.

[Michel Doiron]

We don't monitor social media sites per se. A case manager doesn't have the time to monitor in that way. Our communications folks do monitor the sites and provide us some input. Our minister's office is also very involved because a lot of veterans or friends of veterans will say, “Wait a minute. Michel's in trouble here,” and send us a note. That's when we get involved. What happens in that realm is in that realm, in the sense that they're sharing, if not private information, their information, so we try not to....

However, once we get the call, whether it's a deputy minister who receives a note, or me who receives an email from someone—people, even in this room, will send me emails that someone is in trouble—we take action immediately. Then we use all means possible to contact them and to help them.

[Sherry Romanado, Liberal, Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC]

Thank you.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

General Natynczyk, it is a great honour for me to meet you and to be able to ask you questions. During the first years of my military service, you were my highest ranking superior. I would have three questions for you.

Firs of all, in 2014-2015, the Minister of Veterans Affairs at the time, Mr. Erin O'Toole, intended to introduce a card which was to be given to all veterans, regardless of their number of years of service. It was to be issued in two phases. During the first one, the type of service and number of years the member had served was to be established. In the second phase, an electronic chip was to be added which would contain information on the person's health.

I would like to know where that project stands and whether it is still going forward.

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

The Canadian Armed Forces protocol is to give the members of the Canadian Armed Forces the NDI 75 ID card. However, the Canadian Forces decided to change the practice last month and to replace it with the CFOne card. The card was designed by the Canadian Forces Morale and Welfare Services. The card will have on it the name of the veteran and will indicate whether he is a veteran, a family member or someone else. At this time, we are still issuing NDI 75 cards.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Do you think that this card could in future contain confidential information on the person's health?

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

The Veterans Ombudsman, Mr. Parent, has made a recommendation on this. He indicated that it would be simpler and easier if there were one ID card for all veterans, especially in cases where they need health services. We carried out a study on this program and made a recommendation to the government.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Fine.

Several veterans told me that when they want to receive benefits, they have to demonstrate that they were injured in the course of their military service. The burden of proof rests with them in that regard. I am told that in the United States it is the opposite, since the authorities in that sector have the burden of proof. Is that correct? If so, would it be possible to change this approach in Canada, which would simplify life for veterans considerably?

[Gen Walter Natynczyk]

In the context of the strategy I mentioned, we changed the system with regard to the proof to be submitted. I am going to ask Mr. Doiron to explain the situation.

[Michel Doiron]

We made some changes last summer. We had already begun to do so, and now they are in effect. It concerns the Canadian Forces Operations Code. Obviously, and that is understandable, a member of the Canadian Forces will not always document all of his injuries. When we referred to the burden of proof, it meant that we reviewed the file to see if there was anything that stood out.

Regarding injuries, we have not eliminated the burden of proof, but we have simplified the process. We ask what the veteran's duties were. The deputy minister referred to this earlier. Let me give you an example.

It's in the case of an infantryman.

We know that it is normal for veterans who were in active duty in theatre to have knee, hip and back problems. If someone served in the infantry, there are two or three things we look at. That is what is meant by the burden of proof. If a physician says that the person is injured, he belongs to the club. We still have to assess the percentage of disability and the complexity of the injury, but the person's entitlement to benefits is not at issue.