Evidence of meeting #51 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was benefits.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
If it's a complaint that comes to our front-line office, it's fairly quick. It could happen within weeks. If there are compelling circumstances, if there is a dire need, whether it's related to health or finances, we can move much faster in our office to get something done. I would say that 90% of the time we are able to rectify the case and bring a solution to the problem.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
How often do you hear from veterans asking about therapies that have been approved in other countries but aren't approved here in Canada?
Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
Let's say it's not a high category of complaint. In cases where illnesses are not recognized by Canada but are recognized by other countries, some people might send us a comparative complaint asking why others are getting treatment and they're not. This is not, however, a high category of complaint.
Sharon Squire Deputy Veterans Ombudsman, Executive Director, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
One example, further to what Guy said, could be psychiatric service dogs. The department has done the research to see if it is making a difference, and they have folks coming up with standards. Only once those two phases are done can such a program be fully funded. Bernard can give you more details on this, but that would be one example of what Guy was referring to.
NDP
Tracey Ramsey NDP Essex, ON
You mentioned issues of alignment in the U.S. when you were comparing their veterans department with our own. Do we have similar issues of alignment between departments here in the government?
Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
As I mentioned in my opening remarks, fortunately the departments here have worked together, especially on this education benefit that was recently announced. National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada have worked together to come up with a program and sensible eligibility criteria. As I mentioned before, in Canada, a person in uniform can actually draw benefits from Veterans Affairs Canada while they are serving. Both departments are actually involved in the wellness of the individuals throughout their careers, and they are involved with their families as well. It stands to reason that they must work together. That's why we talk about seamless transition and integrated service. It has to be a very integrated approach.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you both for coming.
There's a report that you made public, “Risk Assessment: Benchmark of Benefits”, talking about comparing benefits under the new Veterans Charter with other long-term disability workers' compensation plans. The earnings loss benefit is 90% of a veteran's pre-release salary. Is there a way to compare this with the kind of compensation you get from things like workers' compensation plans, or do you still have the same difficulty comparing these the way there are difficulties comparing between countries?
Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
In our report, when we do the comparative analysis with WSIB boards from different provinces, we do touch on what some provinces.... In fact, there's a list there of all the provinces and what they provide. In terms of economic replacement, income replacement, and pain and suffering, I think the important thing here is that, in dealing with veterans and their families and ensuring their wellness, there are three things that are important: pain and suffering, income replacement, and then health care and related expenses. I think that once those three are addressed, you're pretty well there.
In the case of the earnings lost, I think it goes back to a question that was asked previously. Unless there is an outcome that is defined, we'll never know when we get there, because 90% of earnings lost is quite different for somebody who was a corporal in the forces or somebody who was a colonel. Obviously there is a difference there as it's based on salary. The old pension act was not. The old pension act was a disability benefit payment, and it didn't matter what rank you were for that.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
All right. Thank you.
In addition, under the new Veterans Charter, we talk about the non-monetary supports that are provided. How do those compare with these other programs like workers' comp? Would you say they're comparable in non-monetary supports when someone goes on disability on a provincial workers' compensation program?
Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
In the pain and suffering aspect, the NVC seems to be more generous than most of the provinces, in fact.
Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
Especially with the increase now to $360,000 provided in the last budget.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
All right.
What are the challenges in trying to quantify these benchmarks, these things other than the money? You're talking about things that you don't measure a dollar value to. Is there a system or an algorithm that you can use to quantify these non-monetary benefits for ease of comparison?
Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
Within the office we have an actuarial model. We can put scenarios into this actuarial model, and certainly, for any benefit that is introduced by Veterans Affairs Canada or that is planned by Veterans Affairs Canada we can do modelling on it. We can ask, if a person of a certain rank were injured after a certain number of years of service to a certain degree of injury, what would the benefits be that they would receive. But again, I go back to what we said before: the outcome is important and that's never been set.
We need to ask what is it that we want to reach. Then the basic approach there is that if you're expected to have the same salary you would have had if you had stayed in the forces uninjured, what can you provide for yourself? There has to be willingness for an individual to work. What you cannot provide can be your benefit, in fact, to bring you up to whatever you would have earned in the forces. Why do you need 19 different benefits to get there? Right now we don't know, because we don't have this outcome line. Nothing has ever been set to say everybody will make at least $50,000 a year or something like that. It's never been set.
Liberal
Doug Eyolfson Liberal Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB
All right. Thank you.
I'll just change gears a bit. As part of the rehabilitation.... I was able to get a bit out of this diagram here. They talk about vocational training and job assistance as part of rehabilitation so that people can, in fact, have income. I've talked about this with other witnesses.
In regard to the Canadian Armed Forces, there are positions that are non-combat positions that are sometimes held by civilians, administrative tasks and these sorts of things. These things could be done by a service member who was injured and can no longer serve as a soldier but could serve in one of these positions in the armed forces. Could the armed forces be playing more of a role in helping provide income to these veterans who could work but just not as soldiers?
Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
Again, that's a very good point and a very good question.
It used to be that way, and in the Canadian Armed Forces, people who were injured in service were allowed to stay in a different capacity, a different military occupation, perhaps. But when they came up with universality of service, then that became a problem, because unless you meet the physical standards.... The universality of service introduced the concept of the soldier first and the trade afterwards.
You'd have to ask people from National Defence why that is so, but I think they expected that the money they would get would be spent on boots-on-the-ground sorts of things, on people who can fight. That's why the restriction is there now.
That being said, public service priority hiring was introduced a few years back, which allows the government to actually give access to government jobs to individuals, so that they may take off the uniform but they still have access to civilian National Defence jobs.
Liberal
Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Parent, for being here today and for giving us some insight.
I just want to go back to the diagram for a little bit.
While I appreciate exactly the point you're trying to make here with this, more exciting, as someone else has mentioned, is the flip side of this. Is there a way to reorganize our existing Veterans Affairs services to look more like this, for the delivery to be more like this example you've given here?
Veterans Ombudsman, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman
I'm sure there is. With the military ombudsman, we have done a review on the transition, and this is all about transition. In fact we've recommended already some ways and means to simplify things.
I think one of the big challenges in this one here is that there are three or four authorities that are responsible for decisions within that complex modelling. If we could reduce that number, obviously a lot of these squares and boxes would disappear. The governance of the transition process is one of the big things, and that needs to be addressed. I know the minister and the department are working on trying to look at that aspect of it.
It's very complicated, again, because there is a duplication of programs. Again, if the two programs—the vocational rehabilitation programs available through the Canadian Armed Forces and the ones available to VAC—were actually merged, maybe 10 of these boxes would disappear. It takes some drastic steps, I think, from National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada to say, “Okay, let's make it simpler.”
