Evidence of meeting #61 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was france.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
Thank you.
On the question of esprit de corps, do the French veterans still see their comrades in any sort of formal way? How does that work in the French experience?
9:25 a.m.
Project Director to the Executive Director, Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre, ministère des Armées
It is difficult to answer the question.
Earlier, we mentioned the associations. I'm not sure whether I'm answering your question properly, but historically, veterans have been able to organize themselves into powerful associations, which are still powerful today. In my opening remarks, I said that, at the Office, the associations have the majority of votes. Those associations are the ones that define or, at least participate in defining, the policy of the Office in terms of the support to veterans.
This esprit de corps is reflected in the way the associations are organized. In terms of the external operations generation, things are a little different. The World War I veterans managed to form some extremely powerful associations. Those in World War II also managed to make themselves heard, just like those from Algeria. The result is some really powerful associations that have some significant clout in the political world. It's a little more complicated for the new generation in external operations. Perhaps the esprit de corps is in fact less of a factor.
I'm not sure whether I answered your question properly.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
That was a very good answer. Thank you very much.
9:25 a.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Good morning, everyone.
Thank you for being here today.
We are aware of the mission of Défense Mobilité, which supports veterans during their transition and return to civilian life.
First, could you tell me what types of programs Défense Mobilité offers?
9:25 a.m.
Project Manager, General Secretariat for Administration, Ministère des Armées
Thank you.
Défense Mobilité is an agency of the human resources directorate of the Ministère des Armées. This agency is responsible for the transition of all the military personnel, not just veterans and injured soldiers. In recent years, support workers at Défense Mobilité had to be trained specifically to support injured soldiers, particularly those with psychological traumas who need special support. Like the Office, we have a regional network that is quite dense even though it is not as large as that of the Office. In all the military installations, we see instances of Défense Mobilité and responsible support staff, to a greater or lesser extent.
The programs are very diverse because the support for an injured individual is customized. Not all the injured have the same wishes and objectives, which means that it is really important to be able to adapt to their expectations.
The support is individualized and for the long term. Once soldiers leave the service, if they still experience transition problems or have trouble finding a job, they will be able to knock on the door of the ONACVG, which will also be able to provide them with support to help them with their transition.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Okay.
How does the Défense Mobilité organization reach out to veterans who might be able to take part in those programs? I imagine that some of them try to contact you. Do they have to initiate it themselves?
9:30 a.m.
Project Manager, General Secretariat for Administration, Ministère des Armées
Earlier, I quickly mentioned the assistance groups that actually work directly with all the injured service members. They knock on the door of this single agency; there is one per service. Members relate best to their own service, whether it's the army, navy or air force. The agency takes care of the injured members. As I said, it is a multidisciplinary, customized path.
Let me tell you about something that works well.
Every two months, we hold meetings with all the workers in the support process and we review the cases of the each injured member one after the other. Around the table there are doctors, psychiatrists, the social worker for social support, and people from the support groups for the injured, from ONACVG and Défense Mobilité. We review 30 to 40 cases and try to determine the level of maturity of each injured person, with their expectations, and to move each case forward in a very specific way.
9:30 a.m.
Liberal
Emmanuella Lambropoulos Liberal Saint-Laurent, QC
Okay.
Finally, how many injured veterans use your services after they are discharged, after they return to civilian life?
9:30 a.m.
Project Manager, General Secretariat for Administration, Ministère des Armées
Once the soldiers have left the active life, they no longer contact the Ministère des Armées; they go to the ONACVG. I cannot say whether many transition requests are sent to the Office.
9:30 a.m.
Project Director to the Executive Director, Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre, ministère des Armées
We have set up a continuum to an extent, which keeps track of what Commissioner Coyo does and what we do at the Office. It is certainly important. We communicate to ensure that the veterans are constantly supported over time.
In terms of the transition for the injured, the Office is currently tracking 400 cases. It is not a huge number. Afterwards, depending on the person's experience, expectations and profile, we can propose some adapted training. To that end, we have a contract with an employment agency, the Agence nationale pour la formation professionnelle des adultes, which is a parapublic organization. We signed a contract with this external service provider in order to have tailored services. This segment of the population is so specific that tailor-made services are a must.
9:30 a.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you.
I want to pick up on Mr. Bratina's comments. There are specific issues for our veterans that are very troublesome, and they're very much at the forefront of veterans' issues these days. Both issues were mentioned by him, namely PTSD and homelessness.
If you had an issue in France that was the most troublesome for the veterans, what would it be?
9:30 a.m.
Project Director to the Executive Director, Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre, ministère des Armées
Perhaps the post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) is our biggest concern. The mission to Afghanistan in particular has resulted in a number of psychological injuries. It is both an old and recent issue. We know full well that PTSD already existed in 1914-1918, even if it was recognized only very recently, at least in France. So it's an old issue that is also new.
We see full well that missions in external operations are increasingly difficult. It started in Afghanistan, but we have since intervened in Mali, as you know. Today, we are conducting Operation Barkhane and we also have troops in Iraq. We see that the intensity of interventions is increasing and that the number of injured, especially psychologically injured, is also increasing.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you. I want to move on to another subject.
About 15 years ago we developed what's called the new Veterans Charter, and that was at the request of the veterans to move toward a more modernized system of remuneration for disability and for regular pension.
Could you give this committee an example of what a fully pensioned veteran would receive as a military pension? I'm not sure of the length of service that is required for that. Perhaps it's 20 or 25 years of full service as a regular soldier, not one who has moved up the ranks, because I know that will affect it.
9:35 a.m.
Project Director to the Executive Director, Office national des anciens combattants et victimes de guerre, ministère des Armées
It is a very difficult subject. In addition, it varies a great deal. This is no longer just about veterans in the French sense of the word. You are talking about soldiers in uniform who did not necessarily participate in operations. It is like any retiree from a public agency.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
I'm going to run out of time, so I'm going to interrupt you if you don't mind. Obviously, it's difficult for you to give us a number, but could you give us a range of numbers, between the pension of someone who was in battle and, say, a higher rank? Do you have any averages of military pensions and what they would be?
9:35 a.m.
Project Manager, General Secretariat for Administration, Ministère des Armées
It is very difficult to give you one straight answer, because it can vary a lot depending on the soldiers' experiences. I don't have those numbers in my head. However, the human resources branch of the ministry publishes every year what is called the social record. This makes it possible to keep track of certain data. Perhaps the one you mentioned is in the social record. If you wish, we can forward the data to you.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Thank you. I'd appreciate getting those numbers when you have them. I think the committee would likely be trying to make a comparison in terms of euros to dollars, and what our packages are.
Another thing that was requested in the new Veterans Charter was lump-sum payments for disabilities. From the very few notes I've read—I'm new to this committee—I don't think France has a lump-sum payment program that a veteran could opt into for a particular disability. For example, the veteran would receive a lump-sum payment for the loss of a limb. Different types of disabilities would qualify for different types of lump-sum payments. Do you have anything like that in the French system?
9:35 a.m.
Project Manager, General Secretariat for Administration, Ministère des Armées
Yes, we use what we call a scale guide. This allows us to determine the level of disability according to the injury. The degree of disability in turn determines what the individuals are entitled to. If the person is completely disabled, they will receive quite a considerable pension. However, if they are slightly injured, they will be entitled to a somewhat lower pension. It really depends on the seriousness of the injury. The military doctors determine how serious the injury is.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
Phil McColeman Conservative Brantford—Brant, ON
Could we get that chart that shows what the lump-sum payment is? Could we have a copy of that chart so we can compare it to ours? Would you be able to send that to us?
9:35 a.m.
Project Manager, General Secretariat for Administration, Ministère des Armées
We can certainly check and give you the figures.
9:35 a.m.
Conservative
