Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 2nd, 2017

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, Monsieur Parent and Ms. Squire, for being here today.

I have only five minutes and about 50 questions. That's not going to work. On the record, I think we should set up a meeting for an hour and have a long chat so I can continue to learn about the process. I'll try to fire the questions quickly, and hopefully you can.... I don't know where to start. I have too many of them.

My colleague Bob said earlier, and I am finding it quite interesting, that the levels of government—the federal, the provincial, and the municipal—need to work together. If you want to drive me nuts when I'm asking about a veterans issue at the federal level, you just tell me that I have to talk to a province about a doctor. It's not about the doctor. As much as we may be talking with the doctor, it's about the veteran. We have to try to solve and work and find solutions for the veteran.

I've been in this committee only a couple of times, but Bob really pushes the question about the municipal government playing a better role. I agree with that, and I learned more about that one. I don't need an answer from you on that one.

The other one.... I'd love to talk about the browser and the comparison between VAC and the Canadian Armed Forces, and how we can make it blend together and that. There are all kinds of good questions there, too, but I don't want to ask you that either, because I don't have time for that.

I'd like to ask you about accessibility and awareness, because that's a big issue. You talked about those who are injured and those who are released non-medically. I could go a long way on that, too, but today I won't go there either.

I commend VIA Rail, for example—I'll get to some questions later. When I look at VIA Rail and I look at their initiative about hiring.... First of all, this year—we have not finished the year; we still have a couple of months left—veterans and their families can travel VIA Rail at 25% off. I've told that to all my networks. That's extremely important, but the time frame is running out on that.

There is also the initiative that 10% of their new hires will be veterans. That's something to be proud of. That's something we should be doing in all our constituencies, 338 of them. We represent all of Canada. I'm going to start talking to my business people and communities. Are you hiring 10%? Let's start somewhere. That's an interesting one but not a question for you, not today anyway.

In Nova Scotia, I have another issue. I'm working closely.... I'm glad you made reference to the Nova Scotia parliamentary committee, because there is something there that we need to work on. My colleague Mr. Fraser and I will study that. We've had a conversation around that, and some meetings with them, which sounds quite interesting.

Let's take quickly.... Again, I didn't get to any questions. How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

You have two minutes.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

The OSI clinic is a very good clinic. I visited it and I'm quite proud of what is there. The veterans are also quite happy to some extent. By that I mean it's not a 24-7 service, so I can't time my crisis, at least I don't think I can. When I do, when I go to a regular hospital, I'm not sure.... First of all, as my colleague said, they don't have the data because they don't track and they don't talk to each other, and second of all, the environment is not really very good for some of the crises. They're talking about a 24-hour clinic, where there would be emergency services dealing with veterans. We're having some great discussions between the group of veterans, me, and the Province of Nova Scotia. We need to continue that.

I won't ask you that question, but I'm going to go right to my questions now, Mr. Chair, because I know you're going to get frustrated with me in a minute.

Here are some questions I have. I've done town halls, but I'm going around to every Legion right now talking to veterans. Here are some of the questions they have, and maybe you can answer them. I'll give four in a row, and you can answer them quickly.

The first one is that you talked about those who are healthy. If you're forced to retire due to old age, what are your options? That's a very important question.

Second, why can't dependents collect tuition assistance if the member is released on injury or disability? If he can't—if he's not ready for it—can the kids access that?

Third, what certification is in place for when you transition? There's a big issue about certification. They could go right to the workforce and not have to upgrade a hundred times.

The final question would be about veteran ID cards. What can you say about that and when can we expect something solid?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I apologize for our lack of time. Could you get the answers to those questions back to the clerk and he'll get them to the committee?

[Guy Parent]

Sure.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

I did it again. I out-talked myself, sorry.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Calkins, you have four minutes.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Parent, would you say the veterans you advocate for prefer a system that would, as a default, say yes to all the services and benefits the veterans are actually supposed to be entitled to, and that the Department of National Defence or Veterans Affairs Canada would have the duty and the diligence to have to say no to those benefits? Should the onus be on the department rather than on the veteran to prove?

[Guy Parent]

Certainly. We've had that discussion before. It should not be the veteran pulling out information and trying to access benefits. It should be pushed out of the department. We've heard before from my colleague that we should spend less time on that dedication and more on the audit later on, for exactly that reason.

It's a matter of trust. We trust people to defend our country, we deploy them on missions, yet when they become injured and need access to benefits and programs, we drill the information out of them and ask for all kinds of proof of service and that sort of thing. No, I agree, it should be forward. If you served, you should be eligible, and how eligible you are is determined by Veterans Affairs Canada. We talked about accessibility before, but accessibility to information is a problem as well, because nobody knows what's happening on the veteran's side.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

That was a question I had for the previous ombudsman from the Department of National Defence. You were here; you heard the questions I asked him. What are the issues legislatively with the access to information or the privacy legislation that currently is in place between the Department of National Defence and Veterans Affairs Canada? If you made a recommendation to this committee to change the legislation when it comes to that, what would it be?

[Guy Parent]

I'm not sure the legislation is actually impeding access now. It's the complexity of reaching for the information. I don't think the legislation is a problem.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

The legislation prescribes the methods by which access to information and privacy are done. Anyway, that is something you might want to examine at some point in time and get back to the committee on.

[Sharon Squire]

Multiple consent forms is one of the biggest issues. It adds to the complexity. Many times there are five and six consent forms that have to be signed.

[Guy Parent]

Yes, and people are using legislation as an excuse, very often.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Do the veterans that you advocate for think that Veterans Affairs Canada should be duplicating the determination of physical or mental injury after the Department of National Defence has already done so?

[Guy Parent]

Are we talking about attribution of service?

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

I know that, when veterans or serving members are released, the determination has already been made that they're not able to provide the level of service required.

If they've been injured as a direct result of their work, whether it's a combat injury or whatever the case might be, they're being asked to leave the forces because they're no longer physically capable or mentally capable of doing their job. Then they go to apply for benefits through Veterans Affairs Canada and they have to go through the exact same determination of whether or not they're injured through Veterans Affairs Canada. Do you believe that is a useful duplication of services that is in the best interest of the veteran?

[Guy Parent]

What happens is that, especially if a veteran has been out two or three years, they have to determine if the particular injury that is being claimed is attributable to the service. The person might have been released medically for illness or whatever, yet the injury that they're claiming may not be what led to their release. That's why the process is in place right now. Is it necessary? Personally, right now, based on the way the system is designed to provide benefits for both injuries attributable to service or not, I think it's a moot point.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

Are you saying that, in the Department of National Defence, if somebody injures themselves playing hockey and they have to be released from the Canadian Armed Forces, the Department of National Defence doesn't clarify the source of that injury upon the release of that individual from the Canadian Armed Forces?

[Guy Parent]

Not necessarily. They're released on a diagnosis, not on where and how the incident happened.

[Blaine Calkins, Conservative, Red Deer—Lacombe, AB]

That's the only difference between Veterans Affairs Canada's assessment and the Department of National Defence's assessment.

[Guy Parent]

It's the attribution of the particular injury being claimed to a service instance.

The challenge of being on duty or not is a big one. Whether it was a hockey game that was supported by the forces and part of their physical training.... That's why it's complicated sometimes and Veterans Affairs does not help in reducing the complexity of understanding duty and that sort of thing.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Mathyssen, you have two minutes.

[Irene Mathyssen, NDP, London—Fanshawe, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think the nation was horrified when we learned about just how many homeless veterans there are in our communities. I understand that municipalities, the people on the ground, have the best capabilities to identify those folks. They identify, then the province kicks in for the medical care and then VAC or the feds kick in about how to deal with this.

It seems to me that the federal government, specifically VAC, should be there as soon as that person is found. Due to federal policy, we have an incredible, critical, and tragic shortage of housing. It's just not there. Should federal responsibility kick in much sooner, as soon as that individual is found?