Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 15th, 2018

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Okay. I'll go on to another question.

What metrics do you use in evaluating programs under your charge? What kinds of reporting metrics do you use for achieving goals and holding people accountable for achieving those goals?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

As a Government of Canada department, we have to follow central agency policies, particularly Treasury Board Secretariat policies. There is a policy on results, which actually gives the ways and means in which we must measure and report on results. We do that with our programs.

I'm going to give you a specific example around a transition report. As you are aware, VAC case managers are currently at the IPSCs, and in 2016, the last year we have stats for, 2,221 medically released members were offered transition interviews by VAC staff. That number translates into a little bit over 90% of medically releasing members getting VAC transition interviews. This is quantifiable data.

Then we can track it as it goes further. As these members release and become veterans and go into our programs, we have program outcomes that we measure, that we track, and that we report on.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brantford—Brant, ON]

Are you aware of any senior—?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I'm sorry, but we're out of time.

Go ahead, Mr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

When someone is declared a casualty, we've talked about there being a diagnosis associated with it. One of the challenges we've heard a lot about is when the casualty produces a mental health diagnosis, which can sometimes be very difficult. Something we've heard—and this topic hasn't been brought up in a while—is that there are members who end up being discharged for issues involving substances: they're discharged because they are convicted of impaired driving, or they're found to be showing up on duty impaired and are summarily discharged for that.

In my experience as a physician, we often find that substance abuse is the very first symptom we see of an underlying mental health disorder that was not previously diagnosed.

Is there a means or a mechanism that can be triggered, whenever there is a substance problem identified in a member or a substance-related offence, to make a determination—to explore and do a mental health evaluation to make sure that there isn't be an underlying mental health diagnosis?

I'll start with General Misener.

[BGen Mark Misener]

Thank you, sir.

Whenever individuals are found to have some sort of dependency, we regularly refer them for substance abuse and try to get them some help to get better, to get well. That's a regular ongoing thing done by the chain of command in the Canadian Armed Forces.

The next logical step, obviously, is that if that dependency continues, we go into deeper support. That's when the medical system would become involved to see whether there's a deeper condition. This is all part of our process, and it all happens well before any member would be released from the Canadian Armed Forces for something like this.

In the case of anyone's being released from the Canadian Forces for substance abuse or something like that, it is because instances of it would have happened numerous times. We would have gone through a long process of trying to rehabilitate him or her first, because we want to keep our people. These are very well-trained people, and they are very valuable to us.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

Ms. Douglas, in regard to VA, we do know that very often a diagnosis of mental illness is delayed. There's a stigma to it. Do you provide services if someone has been dishonourably discharged?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

Yes, and it depends on the service. For example, if someone is coming in and they need rehabilitation services or they need to have our mental health services, it does depend upon the trauma, but we do treat trauma. We treat mental health illnesses.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Okay. That's good to hear.

The scenario that I'm thinking is that you have someone who was dishonourably discharged for impaired driving, and rehabilitation failed. An assessment was done. No mental health issue was diagnosed, but they come to you years later. Is it possible that you would find a mental health diagnosis and that it might be attributable to service, due to a delayed diagnosis—

[Elizabeth Douglas]

Yes. That scenario could happen. What we do find, and what we are aware of, is that often our veterans do not come to us immediately after release. They could come to us years down the road, and if it is attributable to service, obviously we are there to help that veteran.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you.

I'll come back to General Misener. I've talked a lot about the situation of someone being declared a casualty, but it's not complete disability.

We've talked about the subject of universality of service. There are those who will say that they didn't talk about their symptoms because they were afraid they wouldn't meet universality of service, so they didn't talk about them. An example might be a paratrooper who's getting increasing back pain, but is afraid to go see the doctor because he's going to be discharged. If there was a system to keep them on a modified duty within the armed forces at least temporarily, if not permanently, and functioning in a role that didn't involve that activity, despite not being universality of service, would that be a benefit to soldiers and maybe prevent premature transitioning?

[BGen Mark Misener]

Thank you for the question.

Yes, it would, and yes, that program does exist. It's called the return to duty program. When a—

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

How about if someone would be permanently ineligible for universality of service?

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

I apologize, but we're down to 15 seconds.

[BGen Mark Misener]

In terms of the universality of service, I know it's been stated before, but the CDS asked us to review the universality of service, so that is currently going on. Again, we try our best to retain our members, because we've invested a lot into them.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

All right. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Choquette, you have six minutes.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank everyone for being with us today.

I'm not a permanent member of this committee, but it is a pleasure to be here.

The 6th Battalion of the Royal 22nd Regiment is located in my region, in Drummondville and Saint-Hyacinthe. These people are doing great work. I am very proud to visit them from time to time. In Drummondville, there are also veterans who unite their efforts, particularly to take part in Remembrance Day, which is a very important event in this city every year.

My question is for Ms. Douglas.

In one of the other meetings, my colleague asked you to confirm the number of disabled members who are in transition from DND to VAC. This has been estimated to be 29,000, as mentioned in the December 2017Toronto Star article.

Have you been able to get a response to this question?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

Yes. I believe the response is forthcoming and is being forwarded to the clerk.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

What is the number?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

The number itself.... We do know that the disability pension adjudication number has increased. We know that it has increased because the number of applications has increased almost 20%.

I also want to focus on how we are streamlining our services and how we are trying to ensure that we can provide the service as quickly as possible, yet still do a thorough review.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

So there are 29,000 members who want to transition to veteran status, and these 29,000 people are waiting.

[Elizabeth Douglas]

No, those numbers aren't all for those who are waiting.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

What does this figure represent, then?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

Some aren't waiting in terms of the transition period. As a result, again we are looking at those numbers, looking at ways that we can expedite this. We are looking at using technology. We have streamlined processes for some of the disability—