Veterans Affairs Committee on June 5th, 2018

[Wallace J. Bona]

I don't find that the case with Veterans Affairs here in Canada.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

No, it's not the case.

[Wallace J. Bona]

It's very difficult dealing with a civilian who, as we say in the army, “never walked in our boots”.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

I imagine that's the case, and we're hearing that. We have great civilians working in VAC, and we also have veterans there to help understand those situations, especially when they're colleagues and comrades. Veterans want to serve. They've signed up to serve our nation, and I know many veterans would love to serve their comrades when they're having challenges.

Would it help aboriginal veterans? When we look at the population of aboriginals in the service, they represent just over 3%. Would it be appropriate to have that reflected in caseworker numbers so that we have aboriginal caseworkers to help serve the needs of aboriginal veterans when they need help?

[Wallace J. Bona]

In my opinion, it would definitely help. I have a hard time connecting sometimes within the different indigenous groups. I feel like sometimes I'm caught between two worlds, really. I'll give you an example. I was invited to the elders group for the World Indigenous Games last year. We were sitting down for our gala dinner, and I was sitting with the elder who had invited a couple of us aboriginal veterans.

I sat down at the table, and they asked what the moniyawwas doing there. Moniyaw is Cree for “white man”. The elder indicated that I was a status Indian, and they upped the ante, saying, “Oh, you think you're better than us.” I was sitting there eating my food and there were comments like, “Oh, look at that. You use a napkin and you hold your knife and fork correctly.” I finished eating and I said, “Yes, you're right; my father is white. But you know who taught me table manners? My mom.” After that, it was good. No one gave me a hard time after that.

Sometimes when you go into the communities there's that resistance, and when I encounter it, it's a painful reminder of the historical context and the colonialism that's still very pervasive.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

With respect to homeless veterans, could you talk about how we can reach aboriginal homeless veterans? We heard from the communications director of the aboriginal veterans society of Canada that they did a survey and found that 6% of those living on the street in Montreal were aboriginal veterans. I think there are ways we can reach them, and if you could let us know how, that would be really helpful.

[Wallace J. Bona]

That's something I'm trying to get a hold of.

I was talking with the people down on Boyle Street, just telling them that an aboriginal veteran showed up and that this might let them know it's okay to access some benefits. To be honest, I really don't know.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Mr. Eyolfson.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Bona. As Mr. Johns said, I was with him when he was with those Korean War veterans. It was a great experience to connect with these people who had the kinds of experiences your father did. It was quite an honour.

I've asked some veterans about this before. Although there are questions about what happens in the Canadian Armed Forces, there are programs in the forces that can affect how a veteran transitions. Was there any special training for indigenous members during an armed forces career that prepared them for these challenges and let them know that these services were available to them? Many of them go back to isolated areas when they transition. Were they told about the challenges they were going to have and how to address them? Was there any sort of training like that in the armed forces, specifically for indigenous members?

[Wallace J. Bona]

In my time, no, definitely not. It certainly wasn't consistent. When you release from the service, the clerk gives you a questionnaire. In fact, my workplace was so poisonous that the medical officer and the psychologist had to pull me out and put me to work as a driver at the base hospital.

I will tell you that when I released, they gave me a questionnaire about my injuries and I said that I was also diagnosed with PTSD. Their reply was that it was not their problem, and to access Veterans Affairs. I don't know if it was because I identified as a status Indian, but that's the way I was treated.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

When you say it was a toxic workplace in the military, was this like....?

[Wallace J. Bona]

Because I was diagnosed with PTSD, some things I had seen overseas were having an impact on my work performance. My marriage was suffering and I ended up going to see a psychologist; and it took him probably six months before he'd say, yes, I had all the classic symptoms of PTSD. I actually got to talk about things that had happened overseas. It was pretty rough.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Did the fact that you're indigenous contribute to this toxicity in the workplace? Do you feel there was any racism going on?

[Wallace J. Bona]

I think so, yes.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I'm very sorry to hear that. That is to our shame that this happens.

[Wallace J. Bona]

I remember another incident where, actually, I was in another unit and of course we say we don't have racism, that everybody is the same and that, but this was before I got my status back. It was on an exercise and we were doing a night navigation march. A member in our platoon, which was very large, had to find his grid coordinates in the pitch dark, and one of the directing staff had placed the marker and I remember the guys were saying that an, expletive, Indian doesn't know his way around in the dark—and it ended up that it was exactly where it was supposed to be.

I remember the same individual being in the duty centre. Soldiers get in trouble, and the army has different levels of correcting their training, and I remember these guys asking who the inspecting sergeant was. Well, it was Sergeant So-and-so, and they were saying, “Oh, shoot, we're in for a rough road tonight”. The sergeant was a very professional soldier—actually, it was the same individual who was DS on the night nav—and he did his cursory inspection and said, “Okay, guys, grab your kit bags; we're going for a run”, and they went for a five-mile run in the evening and they weren't happy about it. That's the same guy who can't find his way out in the dark, a very professional soldier.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Right.

Another issue you talked about was homeless veterans, and that really resonates with me, coming from Winnipeg. Of course, Winnipeg is the home of Tommy Prince.

[Wallace J. Bona]

Yes.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Again, speaking of shame, it's to our collective shame that such a decorated hero lived his life on the streets in Winnipeg.

[Wallace J. Bona]

Yes.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Do you find when you encounter...and we find this with homelessness in general—I worked in an emergency department, and we found that accessing services for homeless indigenous people was sometimes difficult because they felt that the services being offered weren't really appropriate for them. Would you say the same goes for homeless indigenous vets?

[Wallace J. Bona]

I don't know. I can't give you a straightforward answer, because I haven't met any of these guys. I do know of one individual, and I've now heard he is homeless, and I keep asking about him, but I've yet to see this guy. He pops up now and again through Facebook and social media. From what I understand, he has a lot of police charges going on, but I really don't know.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Mr. Fraser, you have six minutes.

[Colin Fraser, Liberal, West Nova, NS]

Mr. Bona, thank you so much for being here, and thank you for your service to Canada. This study is an important one to try to identify some specific challenges to indigenous veterans and how the government can do a better job supporting them.

One of the things—and I think it's been touched upon earlier—is the important role that indigenous veterans have played in serving our country and the fact that not as many Canadians know about that as maybe should; so education is going to play a key role not only within the indigenous community but in the society as a whole in order to teach people about the service and sacrifice of indigenous veterans and the role they've played in Canada. I think that will help in the reconciliation piece, as well, that this government is trying to forge stronger links with.

I'm wondering if there is something we could do as a veterans affairs committee to encourage the government to support educational efforts, as well as perhaps commemoration efforts specific to indigenous veterans, which you think would be important.

[Wallace J. Bona]

They still talk about Tommy Prince today and how the military treated him. You know, about the army not providing...at the time. They had to really insist on getting a burial party. When I talk about the bold eagle program, a lot of people say yes, it's good, but there's also the few who are like, no, my grandfather, my uncle, or my aunt served in the military and when they came back, they were enfranchised. They had to leave. They couldn't go back to their reserve. The Indian agent wouldn't give them their proper stipends or the benefits they were entitled to.

This is pervasive. If you want to help the veterans, you're going to be going up against that...the histories of how people were treated. When I see someone disadvantaged and on the street, to me, it's a painful reminder that the lingering effects of colonialism are still here and aren't going to go away soon.

I've heard that there's a memorial here in town. My intention is to go visit, but I also heard that it's not completed, so I'd like to find out for myself. Maybe that would be a good start, get the aboriginal war memorial completed.