Evidence of meeting #9 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was guys.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Cody Kuluski  As an Individual
Jesse Veltri  As an Individual
Barry Westholm  As an Individual
Jody Mitic  As an Individual
Alannah Gilmore  As an Individual

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

I know this has been said over and over again today and I'm not sure that you can even hear it. The people in this room appreciate what you've done for your country. Thank you.

It's frustrating to be here in these circumstances and hear these stories. I am a fixer; I like to see things fixed. I'm very hopeful that this group of people will be able to do some of those things that will make a difference in the long run, hopefully sooner rather than later.

What I have heard over and over again are issues, and Mr. Westholm, you brought them up when you were describing the circumstances of the Joint Personal Support Unit, DND, and VAC.

12:15 p.m.

As an Individual

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

You said that they need to be equals.

12:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Barry Westholm

That's correct.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

I thought, okay, we need to delve into that because, even from what Jody was just saying, what is stopping these departments from doing what is best?

12:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Barry Westholm

I think there's a lack of imagination. From listening to what was going on, I believe that nobody should leave their basic military qualification without a My VAC Account. It should be a module right at basic training, and they should get that interaction going right when they graduate basic training and then get a module every time they go up the ladder in a different part of their leadership training. That would be like five different modules, the last being chief warrant officer, where you would be directing process down everybody else with VAC, and DND, and the Canadian Forces. You'd have what they call cradle-to-grave interaction from the minute a person joins, gets My VAC Account, interacts, gets all the information coming by email right through to the day he retires, knowing all the updates that are happening at Veterans Affairs Canada as they happen. The cost of that would be negligible. It could be done like that.

When it comes to, as you mentioned, having VAC, I say take a partnership role, definitely, in the out stream, because of what's been going on. We can't overlook what's been going on with the JPSU as it is right now. There were a of mistakes made, a lot of damage done, a lot of hurt people out there—injured people—who are there because of this unit. I thought, if they're going out to civilian street, then they should have their VAC person right there, and if DND and Canadian Armed Forces gets a little bit over the top, pushing these people, then the Veterans Affairs Canada person with the authority can pull them back a little bit and say, “No, this guys stays in until this is done. He's going to stay until this is done, and that's it.”

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

How do they get that authority?

12:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Barry Westholm

You give it to them.

12:15 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

Who gives it to them?

12:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Barry Westholm

I wish I could give it to them.

12:15 p.m.

Voices

Oh, oh!

12:15 p.m.

As an Individual

Barry Westholm

I would say that this is something you have to work out at the ministerial level, and I think it's great that you have the Minister of Veterans Affairs and associate defence minister as the same guy. That guy can do it, because he is sort of holding two portfolios. That would be the guy, and it is not a big deal. It is not.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

From what I understand, there are a number of consultation groups being set up right now. Will we be able to find out if this is part of that mandate?

12:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Barry Westholm

I really couldn't tell you. I did a service paper on it that I can send you guys, if you like.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

That would be great.

12:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Barry Westholm

With the things that I'm mentioning, you could have a module at basic training in a month, at no cost. They already have the training there. You just put on a Veterans Affairs Canada module for the new member of the military to explain what is going on, and you include the family, saying, “If something is to happen to your son, Veterans Affairs Canada will take care of him after release.” That's a great thing.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

I have a question. When you hear about the frustration and the anger at this side of the picture, surely that has to be impacting the mindset of the next generation of potential soldiers.

12:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Barry Westholm

Absolutely. We are not stupid. If you see a system that is not working, you will do everything you can to stay away from it. You hear about PTSD and stigma. Well, if you have PTSD and you are looking at the unit that is going to support you, and it's a dog's breakfast, then you are just being smart. Who wants to self-identify and go to that mess? It has to be an honest-to-goodness support unit that is functioning well.

12:20 p.m.

Conservative

Cathay Wagantall Conservative Yorkton—Melville, SK

I don't know if this has any weight, but I would suggest that you, as individuals, put yourselves forward to be part of the conversations with those communication groups that are being set up with DND.

12:20 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Thank you.

Next, we have Ms. Mathyssen for three minutes.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

Again, there is a great deal of information. We heard that in terms of.... Alannah, when you and Jody came back, you came to Petawawa, and there wasn't an understanding of what had happened to you, what you had experienced in Afghanistan, and what the stresses were. In addition to that, it sounds as if there was no one there who was able to help you cope with it. Cody and Jesse, you talked about being in a situation where there were no supports, and you didn't know where to turn. In identifying your mental health issues, you felt ostracized and felt you were being pushed out.

My question is about the culture in places like Petawawa and Shilo. Do we need to talk more openly about the culture within the military and how that culture deals with people who come back injured, whether it is visible injury or PTSD? Is that where we need to start, the culture of the military?

May 3rd, 2016 / 12:20 p.m.

As an Individual

Alannah Gilmore

That goes back to my comment about education. It can start right back from the basic level again, talking about mental health, doing a mental health first aid course of sorts—basically knowing a bit about how the body can react, recognizing signs and symptoms. They are offering mental health first aid courses to people outside the military. Why not integrate it into the military curriculum as well, and why not start at the basic level?

Since Afghanistan, I do think a lot has been brought forward with reference to OSIs, mental health, and PTSD. I think people are leaning that way. I know the directive is coming down that people have to put more emphasis on mental health and put money into different programs. It is happening, and you can see it even outside the military now with the emergency services. They are adopting a lot of these programs or ideologies as well. Even though we have started, I think we still have a long way to go. We have a lot of guys who have slipped through the cracks and who need to be picked up. These things have to be rectified. You have to find out what these guys' needs are and actually focus on the members and treat them less like an number on a file. From a VAC perspective, I do think that has to change.

12:20 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

You said you didn't even know what you were getting in terms of supports as a family. I want to go back to Cody and Jesse. Both of you talked about losing your families, losing everything. Had there been supports, or more information, or something for your families, would it have been better for you? Can you see something in terms of supports for your families that would have helped?

12:25 p.m.

As an Individual

Jesse Veltri

Support-wise for families...? No, I don't have any support. I have a son. As I said, once again, my diagnosis has left me almost in financial ruin, to an extent, paying for legal fees just because I asked for help.

Once again, I have to pay for extra health insurance, because I am not fully covered for everything. Our prescriptions aren't all covered. I don't think we are being looked after family-wise. I lost my house two years ago in a fire, and not a single organization military-wise has ever contacted me in reference to even helping me, so....

12:25 p.m.

NDP

Irene Mathyssen NDP London—Fanshawe, ON

I was thinking more of programming rather than money.