Evidence of meeting #9 for Veterans Affairs in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was guys.
A recording is available from Parliament.
11:50 a.m.
As an Individual
I think it should be based on the member, so that whatever treatments your medical portfolio shows should be available to you, or something related to the homestead VIP program, should be based on the member and the member be covered.
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
It shouldn't be that because “there's already one retired person there, so we'll just go under his coverage”. Obviously if there are two, then there are reasons that both people are covered.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
The services for the family is where it gets a little bit confusing. There's the old charter and the new charter. In services for the family, there might be, from what I can tell, more under the pension system. I know there's money for people who have dependants, who fall under the pre-2006 arrangement. That doesn't exist post-2006. I know there are spousal issues as well. I'll repeat that, somehow, you need find a way to bridge the two, so there are not two classes of veterans, because right now, I don't know what we're getting as a family, to be honest.
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Colin Fraser Liberal West Nova, NS
You mentioned the two streams of JPSU as a possibility, one leading back to military, one to a return to civilian life. Would it be helpful if VAC were involved right from the beginning?
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
This goes together with my “no.” The reason I'd like to see VAC involved with that stream is that in what the military is doing they seem to be fumbling the ball when it comes to very important things for people transitioning to civilian life.
I'd like to see VAC in there really to watch their “six”, to make sure that the military doesn't get too uppity about getting these guys out the door and that they can slow down the CAF and say, “No, they're not ready; you have to hang on to them until they're properly prepared for release.”
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
We're dealing with a difficult subject now, because our mission, simply stated, is to analyze the quality of the interactions between the department delivering the services and the individuals receiving them, but it's a very broad and complicated matter.
The first question—because it starts with active soldiers within the military—is this. Is there anything lacking within the command structure that for soldiers on active duty ultimately may lead to the problems that we're hearing—such things as the respect that soldiers may feel in the field? Is there an issue, long before the transition begins, that we need to address?
Mr. Mitic? Ms. Gilmore?
11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
I'm not sure I understand. Are you talking about what my CO at 1 RCR...if he had had a tool that would have helped?
11:55 a.m.
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
It's just a general....
Perhaps I'll go to the more recent guys who spoke, Cody and Jesse.
To me, once again, the issue starts when you become active, you're in the military, and eventually you're going to transition. Is there anything happening during the service time with regard to command structure or the kind of respect that you have?
May 3rd, 2016 / 11:55 a.m.
As an Individual
Jody and I were on Task Force 3-06 in 2006. When we got back, we were in Petawawa, so we were the first of our group coming back from a combat zone to Ontario. Previous to that was the PPCLI and they were based out of Alberta. There were probably some from Shilo, Manitoba as well.
When we came back, it was completely obvious that people just didn't quite understand what we were doing over there.
I think there was still a mental block around the word “combat”. What exactly does that mean? Does that actually mean you're firing upon an enemy? Does it mean that someone was actually smashed, blown up, or whatever the case may be?
Even in dealing with people as we were coming back, there was a misunderstanding of what we were involved in. From a soldier's perspective, it was hard to talk about. We would almost sensationalize things because we wanted to make it so graphic that you could understand, even for one second, what it was like to be over there. You could just see the look of astonishment on people's faces. “How could you survive that? How could it be?” You would do that on purpose because you just didn't want to have to talk about it too much.
We saw that there was a huge lack, at the time, of mental health people in Petawawa ready to take on the challenge.
Being in the medical field, I've worked for different groups. Since the 1970s, the doctrine and policy on how we treat soldiers had changed. It changed because we weren't playing war, for a very long time. I know a lot of this changed.
When that happened, there was nothing on paper that could educate someone quickly on how to deal with a wounded soldier coming back from Afghanistan. I packaged him up. I put him on a chopper and I said, “Thank God he's going back to Canada.” It was awful. It was years of awful. It's not because medical people aren't smart enough to handle it. It's just that we weren't aware.
When you deal with combat and with stressors, OSIs, PTSD, and physical ailments, people need to be educated. That goes beyond the medical professional. That goes to the infantry soldier, the infantry command, the entire division, the entire Canadian Armed Forces. They have to be educated on what these guys were subjected to, where their brain space might be, and how that's going to affect them.
It's not because they can't physically do the job. They just need some understanding. They might need a little bit of time. If they fall into the habit of jumping to substances when they are having a really bad day, people need to know that they're jumping to substances because that's the way they know how to cope, and because they're not being treated properly. They should be directing them to the right people. The biggest lack that we had was that not enough people were educated. Like I said, everyone from the basic private onward needs to recognize that maybe their corporal is having some issues. Why not?
Everyone needs a little bit of education. They'll recognize the signs and symptoms of OSIs if people are having difficulty at home. Then, they can actually direct these people and promote medical treatment, as opposed to making someone feel like they're weak. As soon as you tell a person that they're weak they're going to retract back into themselves, and anger, the easiest emotion to portray, is going to come out. You are then going to end up with two very good soldiers who are lost in the system and kicked out.
Noon
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
You make the really interesting point that in all those years of not too much activity into real theatres of war, the experience set wasn't there at the beginning to deal with those things. Hopefully, we're going to get better at that.
I recall a story. Do I have time?
Noon
Liberal
Bob Bratina Liberal Hamilton East—Stoney Creek, ON
A commander was taken out of the field in the second world war because he was given orders that he knew would get his men killed. He was actually put on psychiatric leave and replaced with a commanding officer who took them into the field, and it was just as predicted, a bad scene. I hope that we have enough commanders and people in the command structure who have that kind of empathy for the men and women that they work with.
Those are my comments.
Thank you.
Noon
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you all for being here this morning. I understand it's not easy and we're all aware of this.
I don't have a specific question. However, I would like to ask a question of Mr. Mitic. I'm sure we don't have enough time, but if you could start at least, we all need to know exactly what the process is like when you're released. What is your first step, second step, and third step, in terms of paperwork and so forth?
Noon
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Paperwork or whatever it entails. What were the steps?
Just to confirm, your release was physical.
Noon
Conservative
Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC
Maybe one of the other members of the committee could ask the same question of one of the witnesses about medical release for mental health.
Thank you, sir.
