Veterans Affairs Committee on May 3rd, 2016

Right. My injuries are pretty easy to diagnose. I'm missing two feet, so I have prosthetics. That puts me immediately in a permanent category. I'm then given a time frame during which I can stick around and make some decisions. In my case, I was given quite a decent amount of time to transition, but despite that, it was still difficult. Once the PCat is identified, you're given...wasn't it two years?

Noon

As an Individual

Alannah Gilmore

For you it would have been three. They're trying to give three years now.

Noon

As an Individual

You're given a date, basically. Once your date comes in—mine was June 18, 2014, I believe—you have your set time to get things in order, and that's when the whirlwind starts.

You go to the JPSU. There is a Veterans Affairs representative there, and there's a SISIP representative there, and there's a DND representative there. You go from office to office, getting conflicting information.

I didn't really worry about SISIP that much. With the educational benefit, I wanted to take philosophy in university, but they said, “Well, no, that costs too much money and we don't do that kind of thing. That doesn't lead to a real job.” I get it. I was an infanteer. The system is designed to make sure that you get a job, not on the chance that you might be a professor in a university if you go for philosophy. I get it. The thinking around it is good. I thought, “Okay, I don't want to learn anything else. I'm fine with the way things are.”

I then went to the Veterans Affairs representative, who said, “Oh yeah, don't worry about it. Once your two years are up, Veterans Affairs will pay for you to go to school. It's no big deal.” I thought, “Okay.” Then, I went to the DND representative, who said, “You have to start school before your release, or else you're not going to get the full benefit.”

There are guys right now who are in courses that outlast their benefits, and they're under the impression that they're not going to get money from Veterans Affairs once the SISIP money runs out.

I know we're talking about three different streams, but that's what you get hit with as you're releasing. Like I said, several times I've been told that I'm the poster child. I'm the example of what it means to transition from the military successfully.

I got lucky. I was really lucky. I was on a show called The Amazing Race, which made me popular. When I ran for election, I was known and I won. If that hadn't happened, I'm not sure where I would be, to be honest.

I left without truly knowing what everything was and where it lined up. I know I'm qualified for the permanent impairment allowance, but I'm still not getting it because when I released, I wasn't given a case manager. I was told, “You're Jody Mitic. You're fine.” Right. So I thought, “Okay, I still need a case manager to process my file.”

To get back to the email thing that was just implemented—I know I'm straying off your question a little bit—I like to use email very quickly, just to send off a note to remind my case manager, or whomever I have to talk to, to keep things on track. Right now we have to call, and hopefully, get through and talk to the person.

Going back to your question, though, there's not a clear process. There's no A, B, C. I think someone thinks there is. I'm sure the system wants to have one, but we're dealing with three systems that overlap each other, and that makes it really confusing. As Alannah said, she has 23 years experience and became a sergeant. I have 20 years experience and became a master corporal. I was a master sniper. I was supposed to have everything together. I had no idea on the way out. I knew, the day that I was releasing. As I said, luckily for me, I was campaigning for my election and I managed to win. If that hadn't happened, there might have been some stressful moments.

I really wish I could give you a clear answer, but right now that's about the best I can do.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

I would say it's perfect. Thank you.

Is it right to say that the transition is easier for physical injuries than for mental health injuries, or not necessarily?

As an Individual

I think it would depend on what your physical problem is. As Alannah was saying, we had to deal with DND to modify the home. That was a real process. Without getting into it, it took years and was just a real problem. It probably led to us both having.... My OSI from being wounded was probably exacerbated by it, and her PTSD was definitely triggered more by it. However, mine is pretty clear; I have no feet. For her and the guys on the screen it is a lot different, because someone has to write down the level of injury that they think they have in the mind. Then what's the treatment, right?

When we are recruited, we are told how to take care of our body, but there is no self weigh-out to take care of the mind. You have to rely on the professionals to give you that diagnosis or that treatment.

I think that, especially for the mental injuries, they don't have a clear, concise level of injury. For me it's 104% on the chart. That's pretty obvious. Alannah has been reassessed three times.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Thank you.

Next, we are going to split the time between Mrs. Lockhart and Mr. DeCourcey.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

First of all, I would like to thank you all for being here. I know that this isn't easy for you, but it is very important for us to hear from you. That was really what we wanted to do as a committee—talk to the people who are experiencing this. Thank you for taking the time to prepare and to be here today.

One of the things that we are doing is reopening the office in Thunder Bay, so I just wanted to talk to the gentlemen who are in Thunder Bay about what their experience has been. How do you feel about that reopening?

As an Individual

Maybe I am just a little more modern than most people. Obviously, the closure of Veterans Affairs offices was a big deal more or less to the older generation that doesn't have access to emails and the Internet. They want physical representation.

For guys like us, it is not a big deal that this office doesn't exist because our case managers aren't even here. My case manager is in Winnipeg, and his is in Saskatoon or somewhere else in Saskatchewan. Realistically, to us, it is not that big of a deal.

However, there are those older veterans who need to sit down and talk to people and ask these questions because, once again, the litigation and paperwork are so complex, even for the most experienced person, that they need to sit down and ask these questions because we get lost in these things.

I am pretty good at doing my own research, but I get lost in all this information because there is so much of it. To have a case manager around is good, but I think it's all on the basis that the Thunder Bay office is opening. We need it. There are a lot more things going on in Thunder Bay in the reserve unit because, once again, reservists aren't being looked after as regular force guys are. They are going straight back to their units and then they get.... I know certain individuals who have a substantial amount of trouble because of their OSI's, but they are not going to go ask for help because it is not offered to them. Guys like us, in the regular force, get access to services, but the reservists aren't getting those things.

Once again, when it comes to us, we were thrown out. We were made examples of in the JPSU in the battalion. We weren't guys who were looked at or even recommended for anything. We weren't given an option. We weren't even given our pensions. We are watching guys who sat in kit shops and canteens for 10 years on medical employment limitations, while guys like us ask for help once and are thrown out.

Is having a Veterans Affairs office going to make that much of a difference for guys like me or him? No.

Is it going to make that much of a difference for a Korean vet or WWII vet? Absolutely.

Once again, this is 2016. People need access to information. It is all on the Internet, and our case managers aren't here.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

Okay.

As an Individual

Is it going to make a difference to us? No.

To somebody else? Maybe.

The answer to your question is, it might make a difference. It may.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

All right.

As an Individual

Cody Kuluski

I think it will definitely help. There is definitely a big gap. Jesse's is in Winnipeg, mine is in Saskatoon, but we are in Thunder Bay. I don't know why ours are different.

I have never had a problem reaching a case worker. It's been fine, but for some of the older vets who may need to sit down in a room, it is a big gap that there is no office in Thunder Bay. It is a good thing to have here to speed up paperwork and to actually go there. You can process the paperwork, bring it right there, and they can expedite it significantly faster than me sending it from here to Saskatoon or wherever and having it get lost.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

That's good to know.

As an Individual

Cody Kuluski

Same with.... In Thunder Bay, there is a major reserve unit, and a lot of the reserves are not entitled to the same services as the regular force. That doesn't make any sense at all. They did the exact same things, and they are not getting the same benefits as the regular force. That's hard to believe.

I have a lot of friends in the reserves, and they are getting treated far differently than we are.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

I'm sure we could probably have another whole day on that, too.

Thank you for that.

As an Individual

It should be a whole other day. They were combat soldiers—

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

Yes—

As an Individual

Veterans Affairs states to us, all the time, that everyone's a case-by-case basis, and that's why the managers are there, to separate on a case-by-case basis.

Your numbers tell us otherwise. You're telling me there are individuals who have the exact same conditions, the exact same payouts, for never leaving the country. It doesn't make any sense, so once again, officers and case managers, it'll make a difference, but your litigation and paperwork states otherwise.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Neil Ellis

Thank you.

Ms. Lockhart, you're down to a minute and a half.

Liberal

Alaina Lockhart Liberal Fundy Royal, NB

I'll share with my colleague.

May 3rd, 2016 / 12:10 p.m.

Liberal

Matt DeCourcey Liberal Fredericton, NB

I'd like to direct my questions towards Alannah and Jody.

You've delivered some tangible examples of where there isn't a logical process to follow as well as an example of how things could be improved. Do you have any other tangible examples of how the complexity in the system, which clearly is frustrating everyone here, could be resolved?

As an Individual