Veterans Affairs Committee on June 12th, 2018

[Maryse Savoie]

We are more than willing to do that. Absolutely, yes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I'd like to talk to you about indigenous veterans associations. There are a number of them that we had an opportunity to connect with. Again, they are self-created to meet the needs of the veterans in their communities. In many ways, they do the work of the legion. Of course, back in the day, our indigenous veterans weren't allowed to join the legion, so this became their source of care.

I'm wondering about how much you reach out to them as well, if you're aware of all of them, to actually build those relationships where they know the veterans.

[Maryse Savoie]

I have a list of the partners with whom we're partnering. It's mostly with the Royal Canadian Legion and the local health authorities. I could give you some examples, if you wish, of partners that we—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's fine. I'm just wondering if that's a source for you as well.

[Maryse Savoie]

Oh yes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I know that in Saskatchewan they're very strong.

[Maryse Savoie]

We're open to any connection that could help us reach out to the veterans.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

On another issue, I know that the younger generation is more comfortable with the My VAC account and reaching out online. We encourage that, but we've talked about rural and remote areas struggling with it.

The Prime Minister was in Saskatchewan last summer, I believe, and was trying to use his cellphone on a farm. He said, “Wow, yes, it's really difficult here.” He was 15 minutes out of our capital city. That again gives you an idea of the challenge for a lot of people to do what we're hoping they will do, but who really do need more of that face-to-face communication.

[Maryse Savoie]

Yes, absolutely. I agree.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I think that's all I have.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Ms. Lambropoulos, you have five minutes.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

I'll be splitting my time with Doug.

Thank you for being here with us today to answer some of our questions.

Ms. Savoie, you mentioned that you are not aware of the exact number of veterans in northern Canada, in the Territories. We certainly can't help them in the best possible way if we don't know they exist or how many of them there are.

What do you think our government and your department could do to improve that situation so that we have a better idea of the number of veterans who live in the north?

[Maryse Savoie]

I'd like to clarify something.

We know that in the three Territories, the estimated number of veterans is 1,900. What we do not know is how many of these veterans are indigenous.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

I see.

So, perhaps you need to work better with...

[Maryse Savoie]

We need more refined statistics from the Canadian census. That would most certainly help us to clarify the situation, to determine where our clientele is located in the Territories, and perhaps to focus our efforts better in that area.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Very well, thank you.

You referred to a centre of excellence. You spoke at some length about technology and the way in which it can improve access to services.

Can you tell us how this will help to provide more assistance in the Territories, in the north, where technology is not necessarily present? Do you have any other ways of intervening directly in these communities?

[Maryse Savoie]

I don't know if Ms. McIntyre wants to answer.

I can begin, and Ms. McIntyre, you can add to what I say.

The centre of excellence that was announced is a mental health centre of excellence. There is no doubt that the more expertise we develop in mental health, the more helpful this is to veterans as a whole. There may be an opportunity to do research specifically on the needs of indigenous veterans, but for the moment that is still in the preliminary stage. It's something to develop for the future.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Very well. Thank you very much.

Mr. Eyolfson, I'll give you the speaking time I have left.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

Thank you very much.

I don't have a lot of time here, so I'd like to get back to something that both Ms. Wagantall and Mr. Fraser talked about. We had a witness whose husband was in the American army. He died in action, and she mentioned having some troubles contacting Veterans Affairs.

I know you can't comment on one specific case, and one cannot make conclusions about an entire system from one specific case, but the laws of statistics say where there's one, there have to be others.

Is your department aware of any veterans or families of veterans who have served in the States who are having trouble with this kind of issue? Do you know of any cases or any active cases where such difficulties are being addressed right now?

[Maryse Savoie]

Honestly, I'm not aware of any myself. I don't know if my colleagues are aware, if Faith is aware, of any.

[Doug Eyolfson, Liberal, Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB]

I'll put this out in the open.

No? All right.

Would it be a good opportunity at this point to maybe do some outreach and put out a call through these communities to ask whether there are any veterans or any veterans' families in this situation who are having such difficulties? This is one case, but this person has been waiting eight months for a reply from Veterans Affairs.

In addition, a lot of indigenous veterans have said that they get caught in a game of Ping-Pong between VAC and Indigenous Affairs because they're indigenous. It sounds as though this individual is being caught in, if there's such a thing, a three-way game of Ping-Pong among VAC, Indigenous Affairs, and the American armed forces.

Right now she is travelling to, I believe, Minot, North Dakota, on her own dime, to get the services, because she spent so long accessing what's available.

I would recommend that VAC start digging into the records and finding out where these are, because as I say, if there's one, there have to be others. Even one case like this is probably too many and needs to be addressed.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

We'll recess now and come back with our second panel.

On behalf of the committee, I'd like to thank all three of you for presenting today and for all you do for the men and women who have served.

I know there were some questions that you might want to expand on, or some information that you have to get back to the committee. If you could get it back to the clerk, she'll distribute. Thank you for today.

We'll recess for about three minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

This is our second hour.

We welcome back Phillip Ledoux, vice-president of Prince Albert, who video conferenced in last week and then we had some video conference difficulties.

Welcome back, Mr. Ledoux.

As an individual, we have Whitney Lackenbauer, professor at the department of History, at St. Jerome's University.

Mr. Lackenbauer, we'll start with you for 10 minutes, please.

[Professor Whitney Lackenbauer, Professor, Department of History, St. Jerome's University, As an Individual]

Good afternoon. It's an honour to appear before the Veterans Affairs Committee today.

As mentioned, I am Whitney Lackenbauer. I'm a professor of history at St. Jerome's University and the University of Waterloo. I'm also the honorary lieutenant colonel of the 1st Canadian Ranger Patrol Group based in Yellowknife, with 60 patrols spanning Canada's three northern territories and northern British Columbia.

I want to emphasize that I'm appearing before the committee as an individual, not as an official representative of the Canadian army, so please consider my views accordingly.

In terms of background, I've been interested in indigenous veterans' issues since the mid-1990s. At that time, the topic was gaining significant political attention in Ottawa, building on the strong advocacy efforts of indigenous organizations and veterans' organizations.

I would like to echo Dr. Sheffield, who appeared before you last month, in applauding the positive steps that have been taken over the last two decades by the Government of Canada to recognize, acknowledge, and honour the proud history of indigenous service in the Canadian Armed Forces, as well as to offer compensation to first nations' veterans for inequitable treatment after the Second World War and Korean War.

Scott and I wrote an article together about a decade ago suggesting that indigenous veterans were no longer forgotten warriors. They have become a part of the canon of Canadian military history, with soldiers such as Francis Pegahmagabow and Tommy Prince, widely recognized as Canadians of national historical significance. The national aboriginal veterans monument here in downtown Ottawa is a tangible example of this recognition, as is the highly visible and prominent place of first nations, Métis, and Inuit serving personnel and veterans in national Remembrance Day parades, commemorative ceremonies, and pilgrimages abroad.

Nevertheless, I think there could be and should be more attention given to first nations, Métis, and Inuit veterans who served during the Cold War and in the post-Cold War era, as well as in the role of Canadian Armed Forces personnel who have defended our country at home. In this respect, I am thinking of the Canadian rangers and their unique forms in terms of service.

My apologies if I'm covering a bit of familiar ground for some of you, but I want to provide you with a bit of background information on the rangers, because I think their status, terms of service, and role are often misunderstood. I provided the committee with a two-page overview of some basic facts about the rangers. My apologies if the French isn't great. My translation might be a little off.

My comments today are intended to touch on a few things the committee might wish to consider when thinking about the rangers in the context of Veterans Affairs.

First of all, the rangers are a subcomponent of the Canadian Armed Forces Reserve Force, so they are serving members of the military. They are not a program like Bold Eagle or the junior Canadian rangers. They are reservists in military units that conduct national security and public safety missions in sparsely settled northern, coastal, and isolated areas of Canada that cannot conveniently or economically be covered by other parts of the military.

They are not soldiers, but they are reservists who act as the Canadian military's eyes, ears, and voice in remote regions, and they share their expertise and guidance during operations and exercises with our soldiers. This is important to keep in mind as I always worry that references that creep into the ranger program perpetuate misconceptions that they are a program akin to the cadets or the junior Canadian rangers, and not full members of the Canadian Armed Forces, which they are—full members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

The ranger funding model is based upon 12 days' annual pay for each ranger, in support of their training and conducting of patrols. They are also compensated for other official taskings as well as for wear and tear on their personal vehicles and equipment, which they use during ranger activities. In addition to annual community-based training, rangers conduct surveillance and presence or sovereignty patrols, collect local information that's relevant to the military, and report unusual activities or sightings during the course of their everyday lives.

Furthermore, they support or lead humanitarian assistance, disaster response, and search and rescue operations in their homelands. These activities often put them in harm's way, and the danger to life and limb is often very real during northern exercises and operations. There's nothing routine about many of these training activities or operations.

Second, while indigenous peoples comprise the majority of ranger membership, particularly in Inuit Nunangat and parts of the territorial and provincial north, the rangers are not an indigenous program and are not an indigenous unit. Participation in the rangers is open to Canadians of all backgrounds, but given where the patrols are located and the encouragement that these patrols be reflective of local demographics, the majority of rangers are indeed indigenous Canadians.

I would caution you that the official statistics that I have received from the army, which are based upon incomplete self-identification surveys and which indicate that somewhere around 30% of rangers are of indigenous descent, are based upon a very incomplete survey and dramatically under-report indigenous participation rates in some of the patrol groups—I think, particularly, in 1st Canadian Ranger Patrol Group and 3rd Canadian Ranger Patrol Group in northern Ontario.

Having access to more reliable data on indigenous participation rates is important for several reasons, including what might be the unique needs of indigenous veterans.

It is also ironic to me that ranger statistics are often excluded from official statistics about indigenous participation in the Canadian military, which has the dual effect of treating the rangers as if they're not real reservists, which is unfair and untrue, and of devaluing the rangers as performing a unique form of military service that has proven highly attractive to many indigenous peoples in northern and isolated coastal communities. I'd also like to highlight that at least 21% of Canadian rangers across Canada are women, so this is much closer to the CAF's one-quarter goal than the regular force or primary reserves. It's quite a success story.

In terms of specific issues concerning veterans who served with the Canadian rangers, their unique terms of service may be relevant to how the committee assesses the needs of indigenous veterans who've served in the rangers and the challenges associated with addressing these needs.

First, because rangers are not subject to minimal operational standards related to universality of service, including the operational standard for physical fitness, and rangers do not undergo a medical examination prior to enlisting, this may complicate efforts to discern what are service-related injuries or illnesses rather than pre-existing ones. This could affect career impact allowances, critical injury benefits, or disability benefits and pensions.

Second, because there's no compulsory retirement age for rangers, a strong culture of people identifying as ranger veterans simply does not exist in the north. In fact, I've never heard anyone refer to her- or himself as such. Perhaps they refer to themselves as a “former ranger”, but never as a ranger veteran. Rangers can serve as long as they are physically and mentally capable of doing so, as identified by their patrol and local culture, and elders are valued for the traditional and local knowledge and land skills that they bring to the ranger organization.

As some of you may know, there have been rangers who have served in uniform well into their 80s and 90s. I'll be at the 1st Canadian Ranger Patrol Group change-of-command parade tomorrow in Yellowknife, where two rangers will be getting their CD4s: Ranger Ookookoo Quaraq of the Pond Inlet Patrol, for 52 years of continuous service, and Ranger Ilkoo Angutikjuak, a member of the Clyde River Patrol, who has been serving continuously for the last 53 years. Continuing to serve rather than voluntarily releasing obviously impacts their access to some Veterans Affairs benefits and services.

I digress.

The CF ombudsman recently completed a report that documented factors which could impact Canadian rangers' access to health care entitlements and related benefits. I'm not going to attempt to provide you with an overview of everything that was covered in that report. I've included their main recommendations in the two-pager that I circulated.

Some of the issues they identified that could be of direct interest to this committee include a lack of awareness on the part of rangers about the health care benefits to which they're entitled as reservists, as well as a lack of awareness about Veterans Affairs benefits, such as compensation for service-related illnesses and injuries, support during the transition to civilian life, financial assistance, and support for health and well-being.

The report indicated that 89% of ranger respondents who sustained an injury on ranger duty did not submit a claim, and most rangers fail to report or consistently track their illnesses or injuries. This may complicate their access to veterans health care entitlements and related benefits.

Furthermore, many rangers, as residents of remote communities, have limited access to specialized medical care, including mental health services, compared to Canadians in other parts of the country and have to travel outside of their communities to receive CAF health care, with many rangers emphasizing that they are reluctant to leave their communities and their support networks to seek that kind of care.

The ombudsman's report also highlighted the need to eliminate ambiguity and inconsistencies in some policies, orders, and instructions related to health care entitlements and eligibilities to rangers, and this may carry over to veterans' benefits more generally.

Finally, and most directly, the report found that most rangers are not aware that they may be entitled to Veterans Affairs benefits and services as a serving member or as a veteran.

In terms of other specific topics the committee may wish to explore, I'm not sure if the CAF income support applies to rangers or if former rangers have access to the veterans emergency fund, which is designed to deal with veterans' homelessness. Furthermore, I have no idea if veterans education and training benefits are available to ranger veterans. I don't have answers to these questions. I would certainly want to see the results of a deliberate needs assessment before suggesting that these are areas in need of attention or warrant the investment of resources at this time.

Nevertheless, the simple message that rangers should be more aware of veterans benefits that are available to them as reservists to me is an obvious one. If this information is not being communicated to them, it should be explained to them at some point in their ranger training or at the very least consolidated into a short booklet or web page that can be translated into various indigenous languages and circulated to rangers.

I hope this short introduction has been useful. I certainly welcome your questions and comments.

[The Chair, Liberal, Neil Ellis]

Thank you.

Now we'll again go to our video conference. From Saskatoon, we have Phillip Ledoux, vice-president of the Prince Albert branch of the Saskatchewan First Nations Veterans Association.

Welcome back, Phillip. The floor is yours.