Veterans Affairs Committee on March 10th, 2020

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

First of all, thank you so much for stating such an issue, if it does exist. I am not aware of it, but if they do, I can assure you that I will have their backs. That is what we're there for.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

At a previous meeting, department officials claimed that no one has been cut off. However, we know of the case of Shane and Veronica Jones, who have been paying $600 each month out of their own pocket in regard to the challenges being suffered by their daughter, Ruth Jones, a number of challenges that doctors have said are related to the father's traumatic brain injury, which is related to his service.

Mr. Minister, why has this family been cut off?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, and again, I appreciate your question.

As you know, and as you know I have indicated and stated a number of times, this program is to remain as it was and to be, if anything, more flexible. You're also aware that I could not discuss a specific case. I would not, but for anything—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Minister.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

—that can be done, and if anything you have relates to a personal issue, you can bring it to me and I'll do my best to help in any way possible. If it's a direct effect of the veteran, or it affects a veteran, I would be very surprised if they cannot qualify, but—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Minister. I appreciate that.

Earlier, you made a comment in response to one of my colleague's questions that support was linked to cases where a family member is affected by the veteran's challenges, and I think we can all appreciate around this table that this would be good criteria. However, in the previous committee meeting, your departmental staff said that funding must be linked to cases where it is a veteran's caregiver and it must be short term.

There's a discrepancy here where the department is saying that it must be related to veterans' caregivers and it must be short term, but you just said earlier in this meeting that it could be connected if the family member affected by the veteran's challenges.

Which is it with your department, Minister? Which case is it?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

A family member can receive benefit if it affects the veteran. If I misspoke, I apologize. That is—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

If a family member is affected by the veteran's challenges.... In the case of Ruth Jones, she is suffering from mental health challenges that doctors have said are related to her father's PTSD. She has been cut off. Is it the policy of the government to cut off family members who are suffering because of their veteran family member's suffering?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

The policy has not changed, and if it affects the veteran, then the family does qualify, but I would let my deputy, if there's anything....

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Thanks very much for the question. I just want to be absolutely clear here. We work closely with the mental health provider. The mental health provider, who is focused on the well-being of the veteran—because that's where our jurisdiction is—will tell our staff that the veteran's well-being would improve if a family member is also treated, and so—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Deputy Minister, to clarify, are these the Veterans Affairs mental health officials, or are these the doctors of the families?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

It's the mental health provider. Veterans Affairs does not provide health care. We partner with all the provinces, so all the additional support either comes through any one of the 11 operational stress injury clinics, or our accredited 4,000 mental health providers coast to coast to coast. The mental health provider will come to us and say, “In treating this veteran, we know that the veteran's situation will improve if we're also able to treat the family.”

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Thank you, Deputy Minister.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Can I just add—

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

I only have about 45 seconds left, but I appreciate that.

Deputy Minister, if a family member is being traumatically affected, I'm sure you can agree that the veteran would be affected. I just want to clarify that we have documents from your department that admit that provincial plans are “disjointed and irregular”. Why is your department passing off veterans' families to provincial plans that your own department recognizes are disjointed and irregular?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Give a brief answer, please.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Again, in our context, we partner with every one of the provinces across the country. We are able to provide this additional support through the operational stress injury clinics and by leveraging the mental health providers across the country for veterans and for families, as it affects the veteran's situation. However, in each province, the department does not have jurisdiction to provide support to those family members, so we work with all of the caregivers in the area to establish the links. In addition to that, folks can have access to our 24-7 additional support and have 20 counselling sessions per issue they may have in order to balance the support across the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

We go to MP Samson, please.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and thank you, Minister, for being here today.

Of course, General, Ms. Lantz and Mr. Christopher, it's always nice to see you all here. I've had the opportunity to have some discussions in P.E.I. with all of you.

My first question is related to the emergency fund, which was mentioned earlier. When you see a 70% increase in intake, it's a clear sign that the fund was necessary. When I started, back in 2015, that was probably one of the key issues on the table. We had emergencies and no one was there to help us. The emergency could be food, shelter, oil in the tank or homelessness. There are so many emergencies that individual veterans can face, and there seemed to be no pockets of money to help. It's not only the money, but what organizations are out there that can help.

As you know, Veterans Affairs is a department, but you need lots of support across the country from organizations to reach out. The increase in the intake has been high. What are we seeing on the ground as improvements, and what organizations are helping to get the message out and offer support? In Halifax, for example, I call VETS Canada, and they're right on the case. They're 24-7 and it's just amazing. These funds are coming forward to help, so I'd like to know a little more about the organizations and what they're doing to help veterans.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much.

We have visited organizations like the Shepherds of Good Hope on Montreal Road, and a number of places right across the country—VETS Canada, a number of times. Part of my mandate is to make sure that we deal with the homeless issue, and part of the way to deal with it is not to let people become homeless if we can do something to prevent that. That's one of the ways the emergency fund can be used, in order to make sure that if things get out of hand they can help the veteran in that way, and it is important.

Other ways are for people who are really down and out and have absolutely nothing at all. They have basically removed themselves from society. This $1.8 million extra will be so beneficial. It's probably one of the most used and most praised programs in my department, and it's so important because it gives the vet that first hand up. There are many things it can do. Also—and the deputy can expand on this—it gives the department the opportunity to act right away, to be able to move immediately, and that too is so important.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

I would just give a reminder that prior to the emergency fund, as the minister indicated, we would use, basically, benevolent funds that the department had. People would bequeath money to the department for these kinds of situations, but there were often limitations, whether it be for the purpose or for geography. One fund was only for Vancouver Island. One was only for l'Hôpital Sainte-Anne. The funds were so limited. Only one fund went across the country, so it was always empty, because all of the case managers would go to this. Therefore, we would work with our partners in the Canadian Armed Forces and look for non-public funds, such as the profits from CANEX and other venues, in order to assist with these emergencies.

The challenge was how to provide money to a veteran or a veteran's family without having gone through all of the eligibility and those kinds of things, yet veterans would be on our doorstep on a Friday afternoon, saying, “I need help now.” Now, in every office across the country, there is a person who immediately can put out up to $2,500 to put a roof over that person's head, to put groceries on the table and to address issues. What's amazing is that when we go to some of the offices that use these emergency funds the most, Halifax being one and North Bay in Ontario being another, we see that they're using it not only for these classical situations but also for the survivors of some of our veterans, such as World War II and Korean War widows, and providing that support in emergency circumstances. That's just to say that it's providing everyone great flexibility.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

It's important to also state that it's immediate. You can move in right away. When you have a crisis situation, no matter what it might be—addiction, being evicted from your home or the many other things that can happen—the department can act immediately. That's so important.

You talked about the private sector and the private sector funds. The private sector is doing, and has done, a lot for veterans, but I think they're doing even more. It's important to emphasize that too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Sorry. I have to cut you off.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We committed to the minister that we would keep it to an hour, and we are at the hour.

I want to thank you for joining us here today. I'm sure there will be other opportunities to continue the conversation. Thank you very much.

We'll suspend for two minutes, folks, to allow the minister to be on his way.