Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 17th, 2021

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening. I want to thank all our guests.

I'm happy to see you again, Mr. Harris.

My first question is very simple. In the department, do you feel supported by the Prime Minister when it comes to your desires, requests and demands for veterans?

[Steven Harris]

Thank you for your question. I'm happy to see you again as well.

In the department, the priorities for supporting veterans and their families constitute a significant investment. This investment may involve the workforce or the creation of new programs and services to assist the veteran community and the organizations that provide support to veterans.

I'll give you two examples. First, we're experiencing delays when it comes to providing decisions to veterans. Clearly, we want to reduce their wait times. We could use additional workers or human resources to help us do that. I can tell you that, since the summer, we've hired an additional 350 people for this purpose.

Second, we spoke about the veterans emergency fund. We realized that we lacked a program that could help veterans in crisis who needed immediate financial assistance. We created the veterans emergency fund, which enables us to provide immediate assistance to veterans in need.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I understand completely. Thank you.

I'll ask the question differently. In 2018, at a town hall meeting in Edmonton, the Prime Minister clearly said the following about veterans groups: “...they're asking for more than we are able to give right now.” That's what I'm getting at.

Do you think that what's being provided to veterans is enough, that veterans are asking for too much, or that we, in the committee, are asking too much of our veterans?

[Steven Harris]

The answer, I believe, is that I can't speak for the Prime Minister.

However, I can say that the department is working closely with organizations across the country to provide services to veterans. This means providing the services that the veterans need or helping organizations that are providing support during the COVID-19 pandemic. I believe that we're working closely with all the veterans organizations to ensure that the organizations can access and use the existing programs and services. I think that these organizations are strong and varied enough to provide support.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Okay.

We're obviously all very concerned about what veterans suffering from post-traumatic stress are going through. Today's news reports have reminded us of a nightmare situation that occurred in 2017, when Mr. Desmond killed three members of his family. This matter comes to mind. We're still wondering whether veterans are receiving the help that they need. We all understand that we can't save everyone. We can't save the entire planet.

I'll move on to my next question. We know the importance and urgency of responding to cases of post-traumatic stress. New mental health guidelines concern family members of veterans. The ombudsman expressed some dissatisfaction in this area. There are fewer services, and access is difficult.

The ombudsman issued a guideline. It doesn't appear to have been followed or there doesn't seem to be a willingness to follow it. Why?

[Steven Harris]

I know that I must answer quickly, and your question has several components.

Measures are in place to support the mental health of families. There are programs for veterans, but there are also other initiatives, such as clinics for post-traumatic stress disorder and the telephone service to help family members. There isn't only one way to obtain mental health support.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Were the 18,000 calls simply courtesy calls?

[Steven Harris]

They weren't courtesy calls.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Respond very briefly. You're actually over time, sir.

[Steven Harris]

The calls were made to find out how the veterans were faring during the COVID-19 pandemic and to determine whether they needed more support.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Harris.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Now we go over to MP Blaney, for six minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair, and thank you to all the witnesses who are here today. It's always good to see you.

I just wanted to follow up on something Ms. Wagantall talked about as well, which is the really important aspect of definitions. I think a lot of veterans and family members are confused about VAC services and benefits because of a lack of clarity around definitions.

For example, take caregiver and family. In some places, this topic is titled “caregivers and family” implying that there are potentially two separate topic areas, but in other parts of the document, there is a reference specifically to family caregivers, implying that all caregivers are family members. I hope VAC understands that's not the case.

There are also other places that talk about spouses and then family as if they are meant to be interchangeable items.

I'm just wondering, first of all, could your office please send to the committee the definition, the official VAC definition, of “family” and of “caregiver”?

[Steven Harris]

First, Mr. Chair, if I may just ask, I'm not sure which document the committee member is referring to, but we'd be happy to share the—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

The OVO report.

[Steven Harris]

We'd be happy to share information back on the definition of “caregiver” and “family” to the committee member.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much.

Can you be a non-family caregiver, for example, a roommate or a neighbour?

[Steven Harris]

Is this a question specifically with respect to the caregiver recognition benefit or any other programs or services?

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Any program that is about providing supports for caregivers. I think it's really important that we define what a caregiver is. Can a caregiver be a non-family caregiver, for example, a roommate or a neighbour?

[Steven Harris]

Absolutely, the caregiver can be whoever is providing that care to the veteran. That's why, in part, the change was made to ensure that the payment was going to go to the caregiver who's involved. There are some definitions with respect to exactly who can be a caregiver with respect to age and other things, but it could be a non-family member, certainly.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay. If you have a family member who doesn't live with the veteran but maybe provides mental health support throughout the day, for example, a parent who lives in a different city who is still supporting their single but mentally challenged adult veteran, like somebody who's really struggling, can that person also be categorized as a caregiver?

[Steven Harris]

Crystal, do you want to talk about the specifics of that?

[Crystal Garrett-Baird]

Sure, and I believe it will be beneficial as well when we send the formal definitions of caregiver and family members. That will certainly assist.

As Mr. Harris indicated, when we changed the name of the benefit to caregiver recognition benefit, it was done to ensure that we recognize those informal caregivers. Those are individuals who provide support, and of course in looking at that we do apply the criteria as set out in the regulations and at what kind of supports are being provided by the caregiver to the veteran. So it's a case-by-case analysis based on the information that's presented.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Okay. If it's a case-by-case analysis, how do you make sure there's consistency? How do veterans know if they're receiving the same supports as other veterans, or the caregivers in this case?

[Steven Harris]

I think if I may, part of what we do is a continual review of the program and the way in which it's applied and set out criteria.

You may be aware that recently our audit and evaluation area completed an evaluation of the caregiver recognition benefit having to do with the regular review of new programs coming into effect. They've made a number of recommendations having to do with ensuring that there is consistency in application in terms of the guidelines. We're working to respond to the recommendations that were made with respect to that particular evaluation, which includes I think what you're identifying here, to ensure that from coast to coast in individual circumstances there's a consistent lens being applied to the decision-making around it in terms of the assessment, and ultimately, the decision on the benefit itself.