Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 17th, 2021

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Your report, in part, was born out of the public backlash to the fact that convicted killer Christopher Garnier who murdered off-duty police officer Catherine Campbell received mental health services for PTSD that he claimed he got out of murdering Catherine Campbell. Do you feel that convicted killers or Chris Garnier should have been receiving those benefits?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

As the veterans ombudsman, it's not my place to speak about any particular case.

What I would say is that what we are looking for and what we have pointed out in our report is that there is a gap for family members who, as part of a military family, have suffered some mental health issues, and they should have the right to access and the right to government-funded mental health treatment in their own right.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

If a wife or a husband is with a veteran for a significant portion of time and then leaves the marriage but still suffers from the mental abuse, the physical abuse, they endured for whatever reason, do you feel that they should still be able to access Veterans Affairs' mental health services?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

This is exactly what we're saying, Mr. Doherty. Let me be clear. We're talking about mental health issues that come as a result of being part of a military family. The connection to service is the piece that we rest our report on.

If a spouse or partner has left the marriage or left the family unit, has left her veteran or his veteran for whatever reason—and we've heard stories about abuse and that sort of thing, and the spouse feels compelled to leave and perhaps takes the children with them—they are, in fact, at that point essentially cut off from access to Veterans Affairs and to any kind of support with respect to mental health.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

You say that you first made this recommendation in 2016. Why do you think it's taken so long for the government to act on that recommendation?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

I think you'll have to address that question to Veterans Affairs.

When we made our recommendation in 2016, it was actually as a result of the work we were doing on a study around transition. The recommendation we made was, essentially, informal. Over time, and essentially over the past 24 months or so, we started to hear more complaints coming to our office, which is what led us to do our in-depth study.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Colonel, your third recommendation encourages Veterans Affairs Canada to continue demonstrating flexibility in terms of urgent mental health needs of family members and veterans. I agree with that. I think we should be doing everything in our power to reduce barriers to mental health services across the board. But we read in the report that very few families are accessing those services. Do you think it is because of the stigma or the ambiguity in terms of the legislation and policy?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

I don't know about stigma or uncertainty.

What I can say is that there is no program that exists for family members whose mental health needs are distinct from those of their veteran. At the moment, Veterans Affairs and the.... I should really say it's the professionals who are treating the veteran. If a veteran is in treatment for their mental health issues and the professional who's providing that treatment determines that including their family members is to the benefit of the veteran, then the family members can be brought in for treatment, as well. And that is great. That is an excellent approach by the department.

What we're saying with the gap is it's for those family members who are not part of the veteran's treatment plan for whatever reason.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Colonel, in your opinion, is $3 million a year enough money to deal with the mental health injuries, the mental health challenges, that our veterans and their families, and our first responders, including the RCMP, are dealing with?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

I'm afraid I can't really speak to the cost. My job as the ombudsman is to shine a light on the gaps and the barriers. I think the department is better placed to answer questions with respect to cost.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Up next is MP Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Colonel Jardine, thank you for your presentation.

Before I even talk about your presentation, I want to congratulate you on your new role. As I listened to your presentation, I sensed your passion. When a person is passionate about their role, great things happen. I want to congratulate you on this appointment and wish you continued success in this role, which is so important to our veterans and their families.

As I read your report, Colonel Jardine, on mental health supports for families, I found certain things quite interesting. For example, I was impressed with the scope of your study, specifically around the impact of service to family well-being.

We often talk, of course, of the effect of a veteran's illness and injury on a family, but in your report you included the impact of frequent relocation and absence from family and the effect this has on military families and children.

Maybe you could help us and share some of the unique challenges and conditions that military service has on families, which should be considered as we're working through looking at service delivery for caregivers. Keeping that in mind, maybe there is something you could bring to light here that would help us as we move forward.

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

Thank you, Mr. Samson, for your kind words and your question.

Certainly as military families, the movement, the postings we undergo every two to three years over a long career, mean uprooting our families to go all across the country, sometimes overseas, which breaks the bonds that children and families create in their societies and their communities. It's fairly abrupt.

There are long absences of the military member. We go on training. We go on courses. Pre-deployment training is particularly of long duration. Then when we deploy—and deployment itself is obviously for a long period of time—the risk of illness, injury or death while we're deployed has a significant impact on the well-being of the family who has been left behind.

Excuse me. I've only been retired for two years and all of this is still very fresh for me, and I apologize for my emotion here. It does mean a lot to me.

Perhaps I could ask my colleague, Mr. Schippers, who oversaw the completion of the report, to add a little bit more.

[Duane Schippers, Strategic Review and Analysis, Director and Legal Advisor, Office of the Veterans Ombudsman]

Thank you, Colonel Jardine.

We looked at studies done by other organizations, but the Canadian Paediatric Society, in particular, noted the impact on children. In terms of increased behavioural disorders, significantly in the three- to eight-year range, they increase by 19%, and stress disorders increased by 18%.

Although military families, as Colonel Jardine said, are resilient, approximately 10% of them struggle with the challenges directly related to military service—so their frequent moves, the deployments and the postings. The risk of injury and death increases when we're in an active combat type of environment. They're seeing stuff on the news and they're concerned about their family member.

Of particular concern, I think, are the adolescent military dependants who are far more likely to have admissions for injury, suicide attempts and mental health diagnoses than non-military teens.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you to both of you for that answer.

I have a number of uncles and cousins who had to move on many occasions. The spouse, who would have had a good job, then had to try to find a new job while relocating, and this had some challenges.

We've brought some benefits and supports to families in that transition. Are you able to speak about that somewhat?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

There are supports, and I believe things are improving.

I think it's probably better if the department speaks to those in particular. It's outside the scope of the work that we are doing at the moment. For me to speak about that specifically...unless Mr. Schippers could add something there

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

On some of the gaps you've identified, would you make some suggestions for improvements so that we could look at making that transition even easier on families?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

You have about 30 seconds.

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

Thank you.

With regard to those studies the veterans ombudsman undertakes, I believe a study was done in the past. I'm not familiar with it having been in the job for just two months, but perhaps I could have my team send that to you in writing afterwards.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

We go now to Député Desilets for six minutes.

Go ahead, please.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good evening, Ms. Jardine. Congratulations on your appointment. We're sure that you'll be up to this major challenge.

I have a quick question for you. I hope that you'll be able to answer it.

In January, in a report, your predecessor Mr. Parent wrote that the biggest issue with the accessibility of services for veterans concerned departmental information and transparency.

What exactly do you think he meant by that?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

I don't know what he wrote exactly. However, I can share my perspective, now that I've been in this position for almost three months.

We often receive complaints from veterans or their family members. Of course, it's hard to—

Sorry, but my French is not always so good.

It's hard for them sometimes to understand exactly what benefits are available and how they can access them. This is in fact one of the complaints that we receive at the ombudsman's office. We do our best to help them untangle their way through all of the information, or lack of information, or difficulty in understanding the information, absolutely.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In your opinion, is it fair to say that the department would be much more effective if there were more information and transparency?

What do you think, after observing the situation for two months?

[Col (Ret'd) Nishika Jardine]

Yes, exactly.

I think, from our point of view, from the ombudsman's point of view, anything that can be done to improve the clarity of information and the simplicity of information that is provided by the department to the veterans and their families would be most welcome.