Veterans Affairs Committee on April 12th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 18 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, as we're all used to now, pursuant to the House order of January 25, 2021. The proceedings will be made available via the House of Commons website.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(4), the committee is undertaking the study of the main estimates, 2021-22.

We are pleased to welcome with us today the Minister of Veterans Affairs and department officials. I will introduce the department officials in the second hour.

To start us off today, I'm pleased to welcome the Honourable Lawrence MacAulay, Minister of Veterans Affairs.

Sir, the floor is all yours.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair and committee members, for having me here today to speak about our main estimates.

It's always a pleasure to join you, and I appreciate the important work you've been doing on the backlog and on supports for the veterans organizations and our veterans' families and caregivers.

As I've told you before, reducing wait times has been my absolute top priority as minister. I'm confident that we're on the right track to meet our goal of having the backlog under control next year. The backlog is currently down to about 15,000 applications from around 23,000 this time last year. More and more decisions are being made every single day.

Last June we presented a plan to tackle the backlog, using everything from new hires to digitization. In the 2020 fiscal update, we committed nearly $200 million in additional funding to put this plan into action. This plan has been making progress.

We have hired and trained the veteran benefit teams. This next quarter will be the first when they all will be up and running for the whole time, and we expect to see increased numbers of decisions month after month.

There is certainly a lot still to do, and too many veterans are still waiting too long, but the number of decisions being made and the decrease we've seen in the backlog—15,000 today, down from 23,000 last year—show that we're moving in the right direction.

You'll see that the main estimates are over $1 billion higher than last year's. This includes an increase of nearly $870 million for disability benefits and nearly $175 million for income support.

We need this funding largely because we're making faster decisions, approving more applications and getting benefits to veterans faster. That is nearly $1 billion more than last year going directly to the veterans, and well over $2 billion more than in 2014-15. There's still more to do, but I'm sure that all of us here can agree that this is important progress.

It's also worth noting that this work on wait times has taken place during a global pandemic. Since the pandemic started, employees at Veterans Affairs have been reaching out directly to veterans to check in and make sure they're okay. We'll continue to reach out in the weeks and months to come.

Because it affects our veterans just like it affects our serving members, I want to briefly address the reports that we have been hearing about sexual misconduct in our armed forces. Like you, I have been deeply troubled by the stories we've been hearing. Signing up to serve with the flag on your shoulder comes with its own risks. An unsafe workplace should never be one of them. No matter the rank, there is no place for the kind of misconduct we've been hearing about.

I want to stress how important it is for those who may be impacted to reach out. We've been working regularly with veterans and advocates on this issue of support for victims of military sexual trauma. We have services and support available through Veterans Affairs. No one should face these issues alone. We set up the Office of Women and LGBTQ2 Veterans and we've held women veterans forums to help identify and address the unique needs of the women who have served Canada in uniform.

Veterans Affairs Canada exists to offer support and assistance. Whether that relates to sexual misconduct, a post-traumatic stress injury or any other issue that one of our veterans may be facing, we want to help. We recently funded McMaster University through the veteran and family well-being fund for an intervention strategy for veterans who have PTSD after experiencing sexual misconduct during service. We always need to do more, and this is certainly an issue that we will continue to work on.

In conclusion, the main estimates are critical for the department to deliver on its mandate to serve our veterans and their families.

Thank you so much, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Minister.

First up for questions is MP Brassard for six minutes.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being with us again today. I would agree that the committee has been doing some pretty good work in discussing the backlogs, looking at veteran service organizations and many other issues.

I do want to focus for a minute on some of your remarks here as the Associate Minister of National Defence. Some people may not know that you hold that title as well. You said, “Like you, I’ve been deeply troubled by the stories we’ve been hearing. Signing up to serve with the flag on your shoulder comes with its own risks. An unsafe workplace should never be one of them. No matter the rank, there is no place for the kind of misconduct we’ve been hearing about.”

Minister, by now you've probably heard that the national defence committee was shut down by members of the Liberal Party today, so my question for you is this. When it really matters, why are you, the defence minister and your government turning your backs on women in the military by shutting down that committee and the probe into sexual misconduct?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

John, I can assure you that, number one, the committee is a body within itself and makes it own decisions. I have nothing to do with what they do at the national defence committee if I'm not there, and you're fully aware of that. I can tell you one thing for sure: This issue has to be dealt with and there is absolutely no place for this in Canada. It's totally unacceptable.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Well you see, Minister, here's the difference. The committee was dealing with it, yet it was members of your own government, the members of that committee, who moved a motion to shut it down. How do you reconcile the fact that you said in your remarks you want to stress how important it is to reach out, but the message to women in the military today is, “We're not interested in hearing about it and are going to shut it down”? How do you reconcile that, Minister?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

John, as you're fully aware, I was not at the committee, but the fact is, with Veterans Affairs, we certainly and absolutely deal with those issues. We take the word of the veteran when they come forward to make sure the issue is dealt with appropriately at Veterans Affairs, and we will continue to do that. What the national defence committee does is the national defence committee's business, but I will do my best as Minister of Veterans Affairs to make sure that every veteran receives the service and remuneration they deserve. That is why we work so hard and that's why your committee works so hard to make sure that we're able to provide these benefits. We have and will continue to do so, and I think you know that.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Sir, I want focus on the backlog numbers for a second. The ACVA report “Clearing the Jam: Addressing the Backlog of Disability Benefit Claims at Veterans Affairs Canada”, listed the backlog as of June 30, 2020, as 21,572 files, with an additional pending number of 23,724 files for a total of 45,296. In your address you provided a backlog number of 15,000. Can you also provide to us what the additional pending files are that are not assigned and under the 16 weeks of wait time, which is the normal standard?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Well, John, as I indicated clearly, the backlog is a major issue and we all agree on that. It dropped from 23,000 to 15,000, and we will continue to do that.

I'm not sure what files you want, but we're going to make sure at Veterans Affairs Canada that all of the files are addressed [Technical difficulty—Editor] back. Now, in the situation with files coming in about as fast as they were before the pandemic hit, as you know, there's been a dramatic increase in applications to Veterans Affairs. We have done an enormous amount of work in order to [Technical difficulty—Editor] and spent just under $200 million on this issue alone to hire 350 people, plus train about 175 or 180 more people in the department to make sure that these people are able to deal with the backlog. They are indeed dealing with the backlog. I indicated to you previously that the backlog was my number one priority, and we are dealing with it and will continue to deal with it and make sure within a year the backlog has been addressed.

[John Brassard, Conservative, Barrie—Innisfil, ON]

Thank you, Minister.

Next I want to talk about the pension for life scheme. The Veterans Affairs Canada departmental plan for 2021-22 states, “the number of Veterans choosing lump-sum payments over monthly payments for the new Pain and Suffering Compensation has resulted in increased planned spending.”

The whole point of the pension for life was to replace the lump sum payments that had been made since 2006. In your opinion, has this scheme been a failure and has it not achieved its desired goal, which was to spread out monthly payments rather than have veterans accept lump sum payments?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Minister, you have time for a brief answer, please.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I think my honourable colleague is fully aware that the veteran has the decision to make on whether they want to take the lump sum payment or the monthly payment. That's a decision that was made previously and is in place. It's a decision that's made by the veteran.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much.

Now we go over to Will Amos, please, for six minutes.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you've come before this committee on several occasions and have been transparent on every occasion, supported by our most senior public servants at Veterans Affairs. It's clear that the effort has been there to achieve necessary improvements. The challenges have been acknowledged. The problems are being confronted head-on.

I think Canadians are looking for this committee to get as clear as possible a sense not only of what the improvements are but also of what additional measures are being taken. You've given us some indication of that.

I'm wondering if you can provide some additional detail on how, over the course of a year, Veterans Affairs public servants are working through a pandemic, as well as how the overall department and its team are functioning. What are the challenges as you and your department try to get this wait-list down as much as possible?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, William.

The truth is that when the pandemic happened, it was a great test for everybody. Without a doubt the department certainly came to the table and responded very well. In fact, veterans funds going out the door are now, I believe, at previous levels or above the previous level.

On the departmental side, I'll let the deputy give more detail on that, but it's important that people realize that the public servants in Veterans Affairs have answered the call. They've provided the benefits for veterans.

I'll let my deputy say a few words on that. I think he's quite pleased with what took place.

[General, Retired) Walter Natynczyk (Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Sure. Thanks very much for that.

Right from when the pandemic hit on March 13 last year the department went to a remote working environment. I'm pleased to say that within a month we were back up to over 90% effective; that is, people had the right IT equipment and secure access.

Automatically we started to reach out to vulnerable veterans, those who we believed were on the verge of homelessness and veterans who were in long-term care, and we linked with their families. We reached out to women veterans, indigenous veterans and anyone with an illness or ailment that, as deemed by our folks, made them vulnerable, including case-managed veterans.

We continue to provide service daily. We receive about 1,600 phone calls a day and hundreds of texts a day. It is interesting that in some areas, like our phone service, we actually became more efficient in answering calls, certainly within the two-minute standard. We started piloting the use of tools such as this and Microsoft Teams to do virtual meetings with veterans. Our mental health supports went virtual almost immediately. We are very proud of the operational stress injury clinics and our clinicians across the country.

At the same time, for cases in which our veterans were in very difficult palliative or frail circumstances, we still had employees who did home visits, occupational therapists and other professionals, in order to ensure seamlessness in support. We created a COVID-19 working group with veteran stakeholders so that we could hear from them and see ways and means whereby we could improve what we were doing. We continue to learn, having these meetings on a regular basis across the board. The fact that we were able to hire over 350 employees and train them during this environment in a virtual workspace was commendable for the team.

I will stop there, sir.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

William, I think that explains pretty well how efficient the public servants have been at Veterans Affairs Canada here and right across the country. That is so important, because the pandemic is a time for mental stress, and without question, as the deputy has indicated, the department has addressed the call to make sure we provide the appropriate service for veterans to the best of our ability.

For that I am very thankful to all of our public servants here at Veterans Affairs. I've been at this business a long time, and in Veterans Affairs, we have the finest public servants in the country. They are dedicated to the task and they have certainly shown that since this pandemic started. Again, I want to thank them publicly for that.

[William Amos, Liberal, Pontiac, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Deputy Minister, and through you, I would like to thank the public servants at Veterans Affairs for their incredible hard work in such stressful circumstances.

Thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you.

Up next for six minutes is MP Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Good afternoon, fellow members and guests.

Minister MacAulay, I'm a little surprised and disappointed by your remarks. I was expecting to hear you speak about women and the services provided to francophones. You spoke about the Office of Women and LGBTQ2 Veterans. However, based on the feedback that we're getting right now, the office isn't running and is having issues.

I would also have liked to hear you talk about mental health.

One person told me outright that the department suggested that she ask her questions or make her requests in English rather than in French, for three reasons. First, her request would be processed more quickly. Second, it would be easier for her to win her case. I doubt that very much. It's almost impossible. Third, the data in English would be slightly different and more up to date.

Minister MacAulay, do you acknowledge that the services provided in English and French at Veterans Affairs aren't equal?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Luc, thank you very much. The last thing I ever want to do is disappoint you.

The fact is, yes, we do.... We understand quite clearly, and we had to hire more francophone and bilingual staff in order to make sure that the French applications were processed properly and more quickly.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Chair, the interpretation isn't working.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Sorry, Monsieur Desilets.

Is there translation now? Can you hear me?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Chair, I can hear you and I can hear the French interpretation very well.

However, I want to ask Minister MacAulay to start his comments again.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

I'll ask the minister to repeat his answers.