Veterans Affairs Committee on April 12th, 2021

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Thank you, Minister.

If I may, I want to come back to the exchange that you had with Ms. Blaney. After you answered her question, she indicated that she presumed the situation of survivors and family members of veterans who marry after 60 is no longer a priority for the government, but she didn't give you a chance to respond. Would you like to do so?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I think I responded quite clearly. What we're doing is evaluating the situation, and gathering the information to make sure that we understand exactly what the situation is, how we deal with it and what measures need to be taken. In fact, that is what we are doing. When we have that, decisions will be made, but you have to know where to go. That's why we do studies on things like this and that's why we are where we are, to make sure that we do better for veterans. Do we do enough for veterans? No, but we have certainly improved the situation, and we want to do more.

[Sean Casey, Liberal, Charlottetown, PE]

Minister, the next study that the committee is going to undertake is to have a look at commemoration. I can tell you that my most memorable experience as a parliamentarian was to accompany a group of veterans to Korea to mark a significant anniversary there and to see young Korean kids hug those veterans when they got off the bus, kids who, of course, wouldn't have been around when they had so bravely defended.

Can you give us a brief snapshot of the 10-year strategic plan for commemoration within the department?

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Please give us a very, very brief answer, sir.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Of course, I have had the privilege over the years of commemorating events of the First World War, the Second World War and the Korean War, which is vitally important to do, and which we will continue to do, but we have to work with the modern veteran. You know how many places they have been. They've preserved democracy around the world. We're going to work with veterans, armed forces, veterans organizations, educators and business people right across the country to make sure we commemorate what these men and women have done. We will do that and make sure that we commemorate it appropriately. It's so important to commemorate what took place in the military action, and we have to make sure that we continue to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Minister.

We now go to MP Desilets for two and a half minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister MacAulay, you're a member of cabinet. So you know better than anyone that Canada should be receiving 44 million doses of vaccine in the coming months.

Have you considered giving Quebec and other provinces the opportunity to ask veterans with health care experience to participate in the vaccination process? Often the issue isn't the number of vaccines but the work force.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Luc.

It's so important that we use anybody who is available in order to make sure that the vaccines are administered into the arms of people right across the country. But I think, Luc, you're fully aware of where the responsibility is for administering the vaccine to Canadians. That is a provincial jurisdiction, but I would be open to listening to anything that anybody would have to say in order to make sure that we make this thing move faster. It would be important, but I'm not about to give an indication that I want to overrule any province.

Thank you, Luc.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

We don't want to interfere in provincial jurisdictions, but we do want to work together, as do you. This type of offer would be a possibility. I would strongly suggest it, because some provinces lack workers.

I have another suggestion, should you decide to make this offer to the provinces. I would suggest that you remove the $20,000 maximum that veterans can earn each year without having their benefits reduced. A veteran in my constituency came to lend a hand to the health care system and earned $26,000. We don't know what the amount will be yet, but she'll need to pay it back.

Should you decide to use the services of veterans, I would encourage you to reach an agreement with the provinces to remove this harmful provision.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Could we have a brief answer, please.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you, Luc. The point is well taken.

Of course, we have worked with the provinces very well during the pandemic and are still working with the provinces very well and will continue to work with the provinces to make sure that we address this issue and bring this pandemic to an end and get back to whatever normal is.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We now go to MP Blaney for two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Hello again, Minister.

As you well know, our committee is currently doing a study on caregivers. One of the concerns we've heard again and again from families and caregivers is that they're still feeling there's a lack of support for them and for the mental health and well-being of children and for the caregivers themselves.

It's especially concerning when they're dealing with veterans who have PTSD. We're hearing a lot about how they're modifying their behaviour and trying to be supportive, but they don't know how to support people well with PTSD. They're doing the best they can, but they certainly don't receive any training from Veterans Affairs to support them and to help their families.

Now we have caregivers and often partners who are dealing with children who are frustrated and exhausted. They are exhausted. Also, in some cases they're not able to work as much, and sometimes not at all, because they're supporting this person who is really struggling.

We know there is the caregiver recognition benefit, but this is not enough, especially for partners who are now unable to earn a living because of the reality that they are living with in their own home and dealing with those mental health supports.

I'm wondering if VAC will step up and start to support family members with actual resources, therapy and supports to address the issues the veterans and their families are facing.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Ms. Blaney, I'm sure you're fully aware that we have done that, and you're one who pushed hard for this. You mentioned the caregiver recognition benefit, which is so vitally important, and it has to help some. Of course, there's always more to do.

The caregiver recognition benefit gives over $12,500 tax-free to the caregivers. That's helpful, but of course, we're always open to more options that will make it better for veterans and veterans' families. That's what we're about; that's why we have the committee, and that's why we have so many round tables to listen.

I fully agree with you. Anything more we can do within the mandate, I would be very open to seeing happen.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you very much, Minister.

We now go to MP Doherty for five minutes.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, back on May 3 last year the Prime Minister announced $240 million for his Wellness Together website. Can you tell us if your department had anything to do with how Homewood Health was chosen to administer this program? Does Veterans Affairs have any contract with Homewood or Schlegel health care?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much. I'll let my deputy respond to that.

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Thank you very much for the question, Mr. Chair

I am not aware of Wellness Together in terms of the greater whole-of-government approach with regard to Homewood. What I can say to you is that we have referred our veterans to Homewood for their therapy, as we have to other mental health practitioners in other locations across the country, such as at Ste. Anne's Hospital. It is one of the residential mental health facilities.

I think you are speaking to Homewood in Guelph, Ontario, sir.

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Thank you.

Minister, I'm going to read you excerpts from two emails I received from a female veteran.

This is the first one: “Mr. Doherty, I just got off the phone with a very unhelpful person at the 1-866 number of Veterans Affairs. This is to give you an idea how difficult it is to talk to anyone. Yesterday I received a letter stating that my diminished earnings capacity amount request has been found inconclusive and that I have to have an assessment by a contractor in order to check to see if I deserve it or not. I just did this last year, December 9th, 2019, to March 20th, 2020. I did it all. Two days' physical testing that crippled me for a week, mental health questionnaires and wanting me to talk to their psychiatrist or equivalent. Please note I'm rated 60% disabled due to my PTSD. I am a suicide and self-harm risk. I didn't want to have to go through with this process again when I just did it only months earlier. Today I bit the bullet and I phoned, and I tried to talk to somebody in that unit. I'm not allowed to speak to them. I'm not even allowed to talk to the supervisor in order to talk to someone in that unit. Apparently they have no numbers for any unit. I was told repeatedly that I need to talk to my case manager. I repeatedly replied, 'I have. He can't do anything about it so I am trying to contact the person who sent me the letter.' Nothing. Simply, 'You need to talk to your case manager,' to which I said, 'I have. He cannot do anything.' This is frustrating, rude and wrong, wrong at every level. People making these decisions need to be able to qualify them and have recourse to answer any questions. It states directly in my letter to call the 1-866 number in order to talk to somebody. I did and there was no help.”

Minister, now I'm going to read the second letter that I received just yesterday: “I just got a phone call from the contractor this afternoon. She basically told me that all the stuff just one year ago is nothing. 'Oh that,' she said, 'the psychiatric part—not acceptable.' I started to fail at this point, went into full distress. I started to self-harm and my husband took me to mental health intake where they did an assessment on me, drugged me up enough to go home and told me they don't have anyone qualified in any sort of military PTSD, and felt that they couldn't help me. This is what happened to me. This is what's happening to vets all around Canada. One minute we're safe. A new person walks in the door and then we're denied. It's always a fight. The only way to win is to no longer be under the control, and to that I mean commit suicide. I was at this point today.”

Minister, you've been in this position for over 800 days. Does that sound like how we should treat somebody who served our country?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Number one, if you have an individual case—I think you have two of them—it would be good to give my office a call and we can help you out—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

It's the same person.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

It's the same person. Okay. Listen, I truly care, and if something happened that we can rectify and make sure it is done.... But I can't discuss that here. We place the highest priority on issues like this, and I'm sure the deputy would love to touch on it with you. The fact is, we want to make sure they have the appropriate support they need, but on an individual case, if you would get hold of my office, I can assure you that we'll do anything we can to help.

Deputy, do you want to say something?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

Again, sir, our culture is one of care, compassion and respect, and where there's an issue—

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

I'm sorry. Does that sound like care, compassion and respect?

[Gen (Ret'd) Walter Natynczyk]

That's why, sir, if there's an issue, we'll need to do a deep dive on it, because, again, our culture is one of caring, of exercising compassion and respect. I do appreciate that this has been the experience of the veteran, and we need to make it better, absolutely, sir.