Evidence of meeting #20 for Veterans Affairs in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was often.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC
I have about 10 seconds.
Ms. Boutette, you talked about the technology barrier and how hard that is for so many veterans and their caregivers. I'm wondering if you could speak to what it is. Is it just for aging veterans and their caregivers, or is it for a broader realm?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
She hasn't given you any time to answer that, but I will give you the opportunity for a very brief answer.
Chief Operating Officer, The Perley and Rideau Veterans' Health Centre
This is really an acute issue for older veterans and their spouses, but it would not be foreign to younger veterans as well, particularly in the group we're talking about. If you have difficulty sitting in front of a screen for any length of time and that's triggering for you, good luck.
Liberal
Conservative
Todd Doherty Conservative Cariboo—Prince George, BC
Thank you, Chair.
I want to say thank you to our witnesses, our guests, here today.
Where to start? The freedom that we enjoy isn't free. It comes at a very real cost, and a cost to our veterans and their families.
Mr. Passey, Mr. Gauthier, Mr. Hines, Ms. Bart and Ms. Boutette, I feel the weight of the responsibility of being a legislator, of somebody who has dealt with veterans and first responders who are struggling with mental injury—PTSD, OSI, whatever we want to call it. In the passage of my Bill C-211 in June of 2018, I thought that we were on the road for hope, that we were going to actually make a difference and develop a national framework to provide help for our first responders and our veterans and those who serve and their families from coast to coast.
I have sat with those who have given up, sadly. I've dealt with that. Our office has dealt with that, so I feel the weight that you feel every day.
I also take offence to some of my colleagues who sit and listen to Mr. Bruyea's testimony, for example, or yours today, and say, yes, but let's talk about the things that are going right, and dismiss it.
The budget was released on Monday. The government acknowledged that veterans, sadly, could wait up to two years to receive mental health care while waiting for their disability benefit application to be confirmed. This is unacceptable. The budget also did not include a plan to address the backlog at Veterans Affairs, nor did it include a plan to support caregivers and the families of veterans. I find this all unacceptable. I apologize profusely to those who are here today. I think better is needed.
I'll stop right there. I'll get off my soapbox, but I want you to know that we hear you. I hear you. We're doing everything we can. I care and I will continue to fight for you guys.
I'll just allow you guys the rest of the time to talk.
Mr. Passey, perhaps you could comment further.
Psychiatrist, As an Individual
I could spend all day talking. As I said in my opening statement, in the late nineties up to probably about 2010, we had results of PTSD claims within literally six weeks. Please have the government and VAC tell me why, when you could do it back then, it now takes 18 months or longer to process claims.
Why was it so easy to get claims accepted back then? Why do we now have lay people often overruling professionals? Why? I don't understand this. My veterans don't understand this. We know it was better. What have you all done that has made it so much worse? I don't get it. It kills me. It kills me when I have to listen to a veteran crying on the phone because he's been disbelieved. What do I do with that?
I mean, that's where we're at. We've done better. VAC has done better but not anymore. I want it changed. Make it the way it was, please.
Conservative
Conservative
MGen (Ret'd) Glynne Hines
I will make three quick points. One thing that's in the budget is mental health treatment while awaiting care. To me, that is an admission of failure. If we cannot get people access to mental health care in a timely fashion, what more processes are we going to put in place to get somebody access through this system? We already have wait times that are unacceptable. Now we're talking about putting more money into something and having to develop another process to get it.
As far as I'm concerned, money for mental health care, absolutely, but money for interim mental health care means you've failed somewhere else. Our biggest failure is the wait times.
Liberal
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you very much, all of you.
To those who have served, thank you for your service, and to those who are working directly with or supporting veterans and their families, thank you. The information you are providing today is extremely important for our committee and for our government to move forward on many of these issues.
Mr. Hines, I really appreciated your comments on the family access support and on directing us to do more review around the Australian approach. I think there are a lot of good things happening there that we could benefit from.
Mr. Gauthier, I really appreciated your presentation.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
My colleague, Mr. Desilets, asked some questions on the matter, and you referred—
Mr. May, I see that you have your hand up.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Bryan May
I'm sorry to interrupt. I think it's back on now, but I don't think we had translation there for a minute.
I'm sorry, Darrell. Go ahead.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
I hope you're not trying to make me speak in both languages at the same time, Mr. May.
Mr. Gauthier, as Mr. Desilets said earlier, Veterans Affairs Canada reportedly confirmed several times in the past that the number of francophone employees was much lower than it should have been. In our most recent interview with employees, we were told that, of the 350 new employees, up to 33% were francophone or bilingual.
We've seen progress in the past six months. One thing that was pointed out and that I'm very pleased about is the fact that some francophone employees are processing files in English. There must be a way to structure this better so that these files can move forward.
Ms. Bart, you as well had good and very precise information about the role of a caregiver and the responsibilities and the challenges around the caregiver. It is very important information.
I'd like to speak about awareness. I think awareness is extremely important.
On mental health, Dr. Passey, you made reference to it, but I want to go back to that benefit. I know that Mr. Hines's comments may be different from yours on this point, but on the investment in the new budget to support people's mental health while they're waiting for their claim to be processed, the objective here is to try to help them from day one. How do you think this will help the many people you work with?
As you indicated in your testimony, it's taking so much time for them to get the results, and then they're not getting the results they need. I'd like to have your comments around this funding. Government doesn't dream about how it's going to do this. It's based on the testimony we've been getting. People are waiting too long, and they're not getting the treatment they need. How do you see this supporting your clients, Dr. Passey?
Psychiatrist, As an Individual
I think it's important, because there is certainly a significant wait-list to even be engaged with a mental health professional who can provide appropriate assessment, treatment and support. That part is important.
I'll tell you, though, I'd like to see a good chunk of that money.... Rather than have it going to mental health while they're waiting for their claim, how about you redistribute it so that the claims are processed quicker? Because that is partly treatment for their mental health issues, for the stress of waiting and the sense that they may be denied. That's easily treated if you can speed up the process.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
Thank you, Dr. Passey, for that information.
I'd like to share with the committee and witnesses today that we had staff here last week talking about the wait times and the backlog. They indicated that we moved the backlog in the last nine months from 23,000 to 15,000. I realize there are probably fewer applications due to COVID and whatnot, but we're seeing very big progress on that front because of the 350 new hires on top of the 148 we had prior to that.
Mr. May, am I going to get shut down on a question?
Conservative
Scot Davidson Conservative York—Simcoe, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to Mary, Glynne, Greg, Richard and Mary for being here today.
I would just say to my colleagues—and I think I've heard this today—that if the system isn't working and we're going backwards, shovelling a whole bunch of money at something is not going to fix the problem. I think that's what I've heard today. I listen on other calls. I keep hearing about the call centres and the red tape. Nothing is seamless. Those are all very concerning things for me.
Glynne, I have a Silver Cross mother working for me. She lost her son in 2010. Before I came on committee today, she brought me this picture of her son, Brian. We were picking out T-shirts for a ball tournament, which we're so hopeful is going to happen this summer, to raise money for veterans.
She had a breakdown when we discussed this, and she said, “Scot, I need help sometimes, and there is no help for families, for children.” It's her son who made the ultimate sacrifice for Canada, and they've been left behind.
Could you comment on the gaps that exist for the families of Canadian Forces members who have been killed in action, Glynne?
MGen (Ret'd) Glynne Hines
Yes. Those individuals, whether they're parents, spouses or kids, who've lost a loved one due to their military service—whether it's directly due to their military service, to a condition that developed such that they pass or to suicide—are probably some of the most affected individuals and some of the most ignored individuals, when it comes to looking after them.
If a veteran passes and has not given their spouse access to their VAC file, for example, or if a parent passes and hasn't given their child access to their VAC account, it can be a huge task just to figure out what benefits they might be entitled to. That's strictly on the benefits side.
When it comes to the whole business of getting care, I believe most of the veterans community is very dependent on the veterans organizations that exist, as opposed to VAC. I know Mr. Gauthier could speak to that, from his work with the Van Doos. There are so many groups that have been set up to basically fill the gap between what the partner, spouse, child or parent is experiencing and their dealings with VAC.
Conservative
Scot Davidson Conservative York—Simcoe, ON
I appreciate that, Glynne.
It breaks my heart that so many people are being missed. The government will pat itself on the back and say they've decreased the backlog from 21,000 to 15,000. The bottom line is, though, that there are still 15,000 people left behind in the backlog. That is a real number and those are real lives.
I'm not sure who else brought this up. What are the barriers here in Canada to implementing the Australian system of supporting family members of veterans?
MGen (Ret'd) Glynne Hines
Given the Australian model is something that I raised, I would say that the only barrier to doing that would be the willingness to do it. If you have the will, I believe it is within the power of the government—within the power of the department—to do that.