Veterans Affairs Committee on May 3rd, 2021

[Rick Christopher]

Mr. Chair, we've done a number of things and we've learned a number of lessons.

When we realized that the ceremony for the 75th anniversary of the liberation of the Netherlands was not going to happen, we had to immediately shift gears. I have to say that it tested the resilience of our people, but we came through and were able to give what I would consider an excellent commemoration online.

We learned a number of things in terms of how we can deliver content virtually and how it can support or be on its own. If you think about the virtual candlelight ceremony that I mentioned, I saw that and was very impressed and touched. The big lessons are that it's okay to commemorate virtually when you have to, and that you can reach a much wider audience. People who wouldn't normally go out to these ceremonies can now access this material online at any time. It doesn't have to be 11:00 a.m. on November 11.

[Marie-France Lalonde, Liberal, Orléans, ON]

With only 15 seconds left, I'm just going to say thank you very much for your presentation, and again, for the great leadership in the department.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, MP Lalonde.

Next we have MP Desilets for six minutes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My regards to my colleagues and our witnesses.

It is very kind of you to take part in this exercise.

My first question is for Mr. Christopher.

Mr. Christopher, I would like to talk to you about financial support for overseas memorial sites. My office has received a request for financial support for the restoration of the Canadian memorial at Mont-des-Cats. Although it is in France and managed by a non-profit organization in France, of course, the memorial actively commemorates the participation of French Canadian soldiers in the Great War.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the commemorative partnership program was established to assist organizations undertaking remembrance initiatives. The Veterans Affairs Canada website states that the program can provide funding to organizations in Canada and abroad. However, I did some digging and found information that the program has, until recently, excluded foreign recipients.

As a first step, can you confirm that the program does in fact provide funding for Canadian commemorative sites such as the Mont-des-Cats memorial?

[Rick Christopher]

I can confirm that the program does provide support for overseas memorial sites. That was the case with the Juno Beach Centre. However, in the specific situation you just mentioned, I don't know all the details. I don't know whether an application has been submitted. I could ask my office to provide me with the details, if you wish.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Yes, that would be very kind of you.

My understanding is that there has been a change.

Now, what were the reasons for the department expanding its support?

[Rick Christopher]

Are you talking about the support for the Juno Beach Centre?

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I'm talking about the commemorative partnership program. There have been changes, as I understand it.

[Rick Christopher]

Yes, that's right.

The conditions have changed, because some small communities, especially indigenous communities, cannot afford to pay for an event or a monument. They have to share the costs. For these reasons, changes have been made. In some cases, the department will cover 100% of the costs.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to ask a question about another area.

The departmental plan of Veterans Affairs Canada earmarks $43 million for commemoration. It is a significant amount of money, and it's justified. There will no doubt be a number of commemorative activities, but I suspect that this will not be enough to meet all the demands.

There seems to be a problem with the investments in memorial restoration and conservation. Short-term assistance is often available—again, those are some good amounts—but there is rarely long-term financial security for the organizations.

Is Veterans Affairs Canada satisfied with what it is providing in terms of long-term financial security for small and large Canadian commemorative sites?

[Rick Christopher]

I would like to start by saying that we get a lot of requests in a financial year. A lot of organizations have built monuments or sites with private sector donations but have run out of funds because of the pandemic or other reasons. So they apply to the department for more funding to maintain or restore monuments.

I think they are free to apply to the program, but the challenge is certainly ongoing, because monuments are being built and we wonder whose responsibility it is to maintain them. Is it the responsibility of Canadians? We have to figure out what to do in the long term. Often, organizations build monuments and the Government of Canada is left with the responsibility to maintain them. So we frequently talk to those groups to see what their long-term management plan is for the sites.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Excellent, everyone's staying on time today. This is fantastic.

Up next we have MP Angus for six minutes, please.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you so much, Chair, and thanks so much to all of you for this presentation.

I'd like to say right off the top that I want to thank the Veterans Affairs staff in the Kirkland Lake office for the the incredible work they do. They do really important work for veterans and, to me, their professionalism and their dedication are very inspiring.

I would also like to say that I think we're in a very difficult time right now because of COVID, which has really interrupted many of the efforts of Legions and of commemorations. I think we have to really be aware of that and try to bring this back when we're coming out of COVID.

I'd like to say first off that having been at the 75th anniversary of the battle of Italy, and also in Normandy, I was incredibly moved by the welcome we received and the way the events were handled. I was at the dedication of the bridge in Caen in commemoration of Captain George Gilbert Reynolds. The response of people in Caen when they saw that we were there to commemorate a Canadian was incredibly emotional. People really felt that connection.

The reality is that we're not going to have very many more trips with the veterans, if any at all, because of their age. How do you see us maintaining these connections that we've established in the Netherlands, Holland, Belgium and Italy—connections that we've built up over the years with these visits with the veterans? How do we maintain those connections?

[Rick Christopher]

First, I'll say that it was very disappointing, I think, to veterans who were slated to go to the Netherlands 75th pilgrimage. It was very disappointing to staff, who had done a lot of work and were very much looking forward to this. I will say that for this I still have some hope, maybe not for this year, but for the following year, understanding that people are getting older and have challenges.

We're there at the invitation of these groups, and certainly in terms of current discussions they're obviously taken up with other issues right now in these countries, but as we go forward, as Paul mentioned earlier, we're continuing to make sure we're not disengaging from or failing to commemorate the more traditional veterans. We will continue to have smaller visits, I think, to some of these areas, making sure we're engaging at the grassroots level with these organizations, because they are hosting us and we want to make sure we have strong ties to a number of these countries and a number of these organizations in these countries. We want to make sure we're maintaining those.

As we shift to veterans commemorations around the world, we will include Europe, for instance, and we will still commemorate the First World War and the Second World War, just in a different way.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you for that.

Something one of the local Italian guides said when we were at Cassino struck me. He works with the Americans when they're there, and with the New Zealanders, the Australians and the Brits. He said that what really struck him about Canadian commemoration events is that we very much include our young people, and he thought that was really a unique and important thing for Canada.

How do we maintain these trips so that young people can see that and can be there as our goodwill ambassadors and come back with a greater understanding of the sacrifice?

[Rick Christopher]

Absolutely, one of the things we're focusing on is youth engagement. One of the ways we used to do that was to have youth guides at the Vimy memorial. They were really our youth ambassadors. We have them doing other commemorative activities right now, but we want to make sure we continue to engage the youth and include them in all our commemoration activities, whether they be visits on a smaller scale or even some of the virtual things that we're doing. They've done some fantastic work for us instead of going to Vimy as guides this past year.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

The question that leads me into is one on the modern veterans. For all the incredible trauma of the Second World War—I haven't been privy to the events of the First World War—we have the sense of freedom and the sense of the welcome that we get, yet many of our modern veterans have fought in much tougher and much more inhospitable territory in terms of Somalia, the Medak Pocket and Afghanistan.

Those are places that in all likelihood we're not going to be travelling to and doing big commemorations in. How do we incorporate those experiences in order for veterans, their families and Canadians to understand the trauma that happened in those places, and as a way of building a sense of national healing and also personal healing for the veterans who were in those really rough campaigns?

[Paul Thomson]

If I can jump in, Mr. Chair, it's a very good question. Again, it just highlights the importance of ongoing consultation so we ensure that what we do resonates, makes a difference and recognizes younger veterans and their service and sacrifice.

We are going to continue to consult and make sure we are working that way. We are going to continue to ensure that they are part of how we construct these new commemorative activities. We're calling it a bit of co-creation, if you will. We're working with them as part of how these kinds of new things will happen.

As you know, the challenge is different. For traditional wars, it's easier. We're good at it because there was a start and an end to a conflict or war. It's a bit different with modern conflicts. We have to figure out how to better commemorate those and make them resonate with Canadians, but also how to make it work for those veterans and make sure we're doing the right thing by them as well.

I would encourage folks, committee members, if you haven't, to listen to the virtual panel we did. We did three, actually, but listen to the one from last Thursday night on digital remembrance. I think that's going to be an important facet for us going forward as well. We need to be where they are. We need to be on those digital channels we talked about earlier that those folks are on, to make sure we're resonating with them.

We have to get away from commemoration being a long ago and far away thing, and make sure it's also here and now, and relevant now. That's our challenge. We're learning and we're working, and we're iterating as we go.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, sir.

Up next we have, for five minutes, MP Wagantall, please.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Thank you for the work you're doing. I can't stress enough how important I see this being, and I really look forward to the changes. I had the amazing experience of travelling over to France for the celebration of the Battle of Amiens and Canada's 100 days, and the amazing work that our armed forces did during World War I to turn the tide. That experience was life-changing. You know, this generation is so much involved in digital platforms that I don't believe it will necessarily do what we hope it will do, to some degree, although of course I understand the need.

I'm just wondering if there's been a sense of possibly incorporating current veterans and their families into that opportunity to go to experience what I experienced. Members of Parliament go. Bureaucrats go. Those who suffered through those wars have been, but we're losing that cohort. To give them and their families a sense of what they have contributed to, based on the foundations of our armed forces, would be something to consider going forward, when we will be back to being able to travel.

[Paul Thomson]

If I can jump in, Mr. Chair, it's a great point. We always need to continue to be innovative and look for ways to involve families.

One thing I'll highlight—and I think MP Angus will remember this—is that when we did our trip to Normandy we'd do burials. If we located remains and could identify the remains of a fallen soldier, we would invite the family to come with us and participate in the burial over there, and participate in our whole delegation. We did that, and we want to do more of those kinds of things. Your point is well taken, and we are continuing to look at ways to involve the families, not only in our ceremonies but also in our delegations.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's great. As I think about the fact that I got to go, I have an incredible desire to see my children and grandchildren have that experience, maybe just to light that fire. I can see how challenging it would be to do that.

In our notes, it reads, “Lastly, the 10-year strategic plan calls for the completion of the national monument to Canada's mission in Afghanistan on LeBreton Flats in Ottawa.” Where is that mission right now in terms of seeing that come to fruition? What's the date that we can tell them this is going to be completed?

[Rick Christopher]

Mr. Chair, I'll start with some of the challenges we face, and I'll let Paul wrap it up.

I will tell you that we've been working hard with our partners at Heritage and the National Capital Commission. Of course, the pandemic hit. We've even done some things like use drone imagery to help the five finalists who have been selected do a virtual site visit. There have been some delays because of that, and we're working hard to make sure we get this. We continue this despite some of the challenges, and we will make sure there will be a meaningful place for veterans and all Canadians to commemorate Afghanistan.

Did you want to talk about some timelines, Paul?

[Paul Thomson]

A key one is upcoming. Our phase two of the consultation work is coming. Rick alluded to the fact that we are down to five finalists who have been working diligently on their design concepts. They are going to be presenting those concepts to the Canadian public very shortly—in mid to late May.

As Rick said, unfortunately, it all has to be virtual. We're going to open it up to key stakeholders first—that is, families and others.