Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 12th, 2020

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Minister, I understand your time frame for clearing the backlog, but I think there is a mismatch between the steps you are taking and the size of the problem.

I am going to follow up on what my fellow member Mr. Brassard said earlier. Within just a few weeks, the government was able to respond to the pandemic and process eight million applications. Forty thousand is a lot less than eight million.

Can you not make some sort of special effort—a war-like effort—to clear the backlog? You don't need to walk me through your plan again. I know it by heart. It is fine, but I still do not think it's enough. This calls for a war-like effort.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I fully understand what you're saying, but the process has to be put in place. We have to have a process to deal with applications.

There are applications. Let's say we are dealing with a paratrooper who has bad knees or with a gunner who has hearing loss. We're going to make these very quick or automatic. But there are very complex cases that we have to deal with, also considering that there are a lot of cases, period.

Once we get it under control, which we will do and are doing at the moment.... And it is going down. The thing we had to do with government is to put the appropriate process in place, and that's what we did. We got the funding to do it through Bill C-4, which you supported, and I appreciate that. That will help us hire the people. They will be trained, and there will be the French.... The languages will be well addressed. We will make sure that these people are trained specifically to deal with the backlog. With that, we will be able to address the backlog.

That is the priority. That's what we have to do.

Also, if there's a veteran or anybody at all who hears there's a veteran in dire need, we have the emergency fund, which can certainly address these issues.

I would ask my deputy if he could expand on the emergency fund. It's very important.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you. We are out of time. Maybe we can come back to that.

MP Blaney, you're up next.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Hello, Lawrence. It's always good to see you.

I want to clarify first of all that there are, in fact, over 40,000 applications. You're saying it's under 20,000. I just want to make sure everybody understands that veterans can apply more than once, so there can be a great number of applications outstanding, with more than one belonging to a single veteran.

I think it's important that we don't confuse those messages. The reality is that there are a lot of applications that many veterans are still working on.

Minister, the last time you were here with us you talked about the reality that VAC could always use more money, but that money alone wouldn't solve the backlog issues. We know there have now been over 300 new hires in June. I am concerned they are still considered temporary.

Given that the PBO report says that without these additional employees the backlog would only worsen, when are we going to see these temporary employees called permanent?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Rachel.

Of course, the figure you're quoting on the backlog includes the applications that came in yesterday. I know you know that. It's important to realize that the backlog is under 20,000, and it is totally unacceptable, but we are working on it. It was higher, and we are making it lower.

The process we put in place by coordinating the staff and digitizing the files is starting to work. The 350 plus the 180 we are training will be on staff. I will let the deputy answer when they will be on staff, but these people are going to be well trained to deal with the backlog. That's what they are specifically trained for. That is the problem—

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Minister, I'm sorry to interrupt. Of course, you know that, but they are being called temporary staff, and when we look at that backlog I think it makes sense that they should be permanent.

Is there ever going to be a time when they are moved off that temporary list?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

They very well could be. The 180 who are on now were on a temporary list, and now they are on this list.

Look, if you're needed in the department...the Government of Canada is required to provide appropriate benefits to the veterans of this country.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Yes, they are, sir.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

That is what we are going to do, but I would let the deputy answer that.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

No. It's okay. I think you answered.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Okay.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I really appreciate that. I'm curious, what is the ministry's plan? We know a lot of veterans are wanting to apply, but having challenges getting doctors' notes and whatnot because of COVID-19. What we're seeing is this invisible backlog building that we're going to see once things calm down. We have definitely heard in my office from many veterans who have not been able to fill out their applications.

Knowing that we already have a significant backlog, knowing that we have a lot of veterans who are not able to access their applications as quickly as possible because of the realities in their communities, what is the plan to prepare for that sudden increase I expect we will see in the next few months?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Rachel, first of all, I truly know that you care. You're dedicated to the task, and I appreciate that. The fact is that we have no control over what comes in. The only thing we can deal with is what comes in. The health and safety of veterans and their families is vitally important, and during the pandemic we did that.... That's essential to make sure that the virus does not spread.

But, you're well aware of, and you supported in the House, Bill C-4, which provided $20,000 for the Legion, ANAVETS and other organizations right across the country. These organizations do so much. It's vitally important that they stay up and running. I know you know that.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I couldn't agree more, sir. You know that I—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

You know, there's difficulty filling out forms. I might not be great at it myself. You need people who know how to fill out the forms. The problem with forms is that something vitally important could be missing from them, and you have to make sure that it is all there.

Since the pandemic emerged we have put out over half a billion dollars in funds for veterans, which is vitally important—and they must have it. If there is a spike afterwards.... As I always said, our job is to make sure that we provide the benefits for veterans. We have a problem with the backlog. We're going to address it. You helped us in the House by supporting Bill C-4 to put the 350 new employees, plus the 180 we're training, in place. We will do that. Along with the changes in the department, we will make sure we address that backlog.

There's one thing about the department; we have no idea what's coming in, but we do know one thing, that we have to address it.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I certainly hope you have a bit of a plan, Minister.

I have another question. I've been working with a lot of MPs' offices across Canada, because getting authorization forms submitted to help support veterans is a very hard process. Right now, there is a fairly clear system in place for the CRA and Service Canada, but unfortunately in some cases people are required to mail in a physical copy to Quebec—an authorization form—which takes a week from provinces like mine, B.C., or even longer if they're more remote. Then there's a three-week processing time before the authorization is sent back and before the office can even begin to support the veteran.

I'm just wondering, if we could ask you to create a solution...because if we already have a long backlog, it makes sense to have an authorization form so that MPs can support their veterans in the way they should, instead of having to wait six to eight weeks to get that authorization form simply to take the next step. Can I get a commitment from you to work on that, Minister?

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Please give a very quick answer, Minister.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Rachel, you have the commitment, because we have to make sure that we do everything we can—and I know you care—to make sure we get the proper remuneration for veterans, and we will.

[The Chair, Liberal, Bryan May]

Thank you, Minister.

Now we go over to MP Wagantall for five minutes, please.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister and Deputy Minister, for being here with us today.

I have to say, if I were a veteran listening to this right now, I would be devastated. I am hearing the same things I have heard on this committee since I first came on to it in 2016—the same explanations of what we're going to do, the moving forward with hiring more people—yet this backlog, sir, continues to grow.

We have veterans who are struggling with mental health issues. It all began back in 2017, with the story of the Lionel Desmond case, when the Canadian press came out and realized how far behind we were at that point in servicing our veterans' needs. At that point, Gary Walbourne had already indicated it was time to end troops being forced out for medical reasons before benefits and services were in place.

Yet, even now, in 2020, we just heard from Amy Meunier, the director general of the centralized operations division at Veterans Affairs Canada. An article recounts that: “She said the department is also looking at partnering with the Canadian Armed Forces to access veterans' health records in order to determine more easily whether an injury was related to service or not.”

This, to me, is outrageous, that we're still at this point. That backlog, sir.... We're using different metrics here, but the reality is that there are close to 50,000 separate applications that are still in process; 22,000 of those “were considered complete and were waiting only for a decision from the department.” What does that mean, “a decision from the department”? How long does that take? Is that the 16 weeks?

I have an individual who is not a severe case and who applied for his pension a year ago, October 2019. All the paperwork was there, and he was still looking at possibly up to 64 more weeks to have it processed in the decision phase. This is the decision phase for 22,000 applicants.

Therefore, sir, my question to you is, when are we going to get action? From what I understand about the hiring process, and what I've read about getting people hired for this role, is that we need to move it across Canada and set up a department in a place where it can work outside of the Charlottetown site. Yet it took this government no time to shut down the Vermillion site and move it to Edmonton for their purposes.

That's my question for you. What are we doing concretely to get these people employed—employed full time and long-term—and taking care of our veterans?

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Thank you very much, Cathay.

You mentioned 2016. I can just tell you what we did. I think you're fully aware that after we formed government in 2016, we hired 1,000 employees who had been released by the previous government, and we also provided a lot more programs for veterans to deal with people in the military who were going to become veterans and civilians—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Excuse me, Minister—

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

Just give me a second to answer you—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I want to know what you're going to do now. This is where we're at now.

[Lawrence MacAulay, Liberal, Cardigan, PE]

I'm telling you what I'm doing now. Right now, I'm sitting down talking to you, or trying to.

The fact of the matter is this is what we did. With these new programs that we had, the education program itself, that is so... I think there are about 800 people accessing the education program when they leave the Canadian Armed Forces, when they're veterans. These people are becoming very valuable to our economy across the country.