Veterans Affairs Committee on Sept. 26th, 2024

[Joanne Kimm]

My other thought on that goes back to serving members. My father was in the military, too, so I have quite a lengthy military family history.

Before a member actually gets discharged from military service, I know there are seminars they can take to discuss Veterans Affairs, and they're given some information on what they could be entitled to. I think it needs to go a bit deeper. We have to take a step back into DND and have them provide more information ahead of time to those who.... They might not need these services for 20 years, like in the case of my husband, but the information should be provided ahead of time, so that if something happens, they can refer to this binder or package of information that says, “Okay, if this happens to you, this is who you can contact, and this is what you might be entitled to”, and they have a clear and transparent picture of the services that could be available to them.

Just giving them that information could be very helpful for when the time comes and they are veterans, so they have something to look back on and say, “Oh, that's right. I have that in my package here.”

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Knowing you have a family that has served our country, I think for most who are serving us, when they are being deployed, one thing that goes through their minds is when they can come home and if they can come home in one piece. What you have suggested with that guidance would really help them to understand what they can expect before they go into service.

I know time is running short. Is there any additional information you would like to share with the committee or something further you can submit so that we can also incorporate it into our study?

[Joanne Kimm]

My suggestion is that there needs to be a more proactive approach on things, instead of being demand-driven. As I mentioned, a lot of people don't know what to ask for. There needs to be that thinking: “Okay, how can we best approach veterans to let them know what they're entitled to in different circumstances?” It could be a table laid out that says, “If you have experienced this, this is what you could be entitled to and here's who you can contact.” Clearly lay it out. Obviously, there are a lot of mental and physical afflictions and so forth, and it'll take work to develop this, but I think that having it clearly laid out will be a big help.

[Wilson Miao, Liberal, Richmond Centre, BC]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Kimm.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

That's the end of the time for that round.

What we'll do at this point is give each party another two and a half minutes.

We still start with Ms. Bérubé from the Bloc Québécois.

You have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mrs. Kimm, your husband is really lucky to have you. I imagine that there are veterans who are alone and not lucky enough to have the support of their loved ones.

Is there an officer who handles your case file, or do you have to start the process over every time you call or make an application?

[Joanne Kimm]

That's a very good question. Sometimes I had to go into my VAC account and send them a message. I don't know who initially would see it, but then they would pass it along to our caseworker. Even though we had two, sometimes I spoke to somebody else. It would be great if we had direct contact with those caseworkers. Just the way the system is set up, you don't know who you're going to be speaking to until you mention, “Oh, I've been dealing with this person as our caseworker.” Initially, we don't know who we're going to talk to, until we mention, for example, my husband's file number. Then the person can look it up and say, “Oh, okay, so you've been dealing with this person. Let me pass you over to their voice mail, or I'll give them a message for them to contact you.”

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

How do you feel that we as committee members can help you?

[Joanne Kimm]

The awareness of what we're going through and how the pain and suffering compensation is inadequate is something.... I want to bring that awareness to you in person so that, when you make recommendations, you know how impactful a decision or a recommendation that you make is to people like me, my husband and other veterans. I think it's very important that you realize this particular issue has been discussed before in length, yet nothing has happened. There has been no concrete change.

My hope is that you can effect that change and, going forward, I look forward to hearing that the change has been recommended. Like I said earlier, it is a legislative change, so I know it takes work, but I know that this committee has the ability to help effect that change.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Thank you.

Now we go to Ms. Blaney of the NDP for two and a half minutes.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

I was admiring the huge file that you brought with you, which obviously is what you're using to track everything for your husband. Thank you for being such a strong advocate. Not all people can speak during these hard times, and when you have the capacity to do it, I really appreciate your stepping up and doing it because, when you speak, you're not just speaking for yourself. You're giving voice to what a lot of veterans and their families are experiencing. Thank you for being willing to take that on.

When I look at that big file, I just wonder whether you can tell us how this process was for you in terms of applying for different things, and whether there was any resistance from VAC about accepting the fact that the cancer your spouse has is connected to service.

[Joanne Kimm]

When I first submitted the application, I knew it was going to take a long time and I knew we didn't have the luxury of time, so I approached our member of Parliament to expedite it, which they did. The initial application indicated that he had been exposed to the toxic chemicals, yet I found out later that they indicated the asbestos was the reason they were accepting his cancer. Even though I stressed the AFFF chemical, I didn't even think about asbestos. It was only after we received word that he'd been accepted and we found out it was the asbestos that I asked my husband if he was around asbestos a lot, and he said, “Yeah, on the older ships, sure.” It was quite a surprise to find that out.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I'm glad to hear that they accepted it, but it's scary to know they accepted it for something you weren't thinking of.

You talked about the application process. Did you find it overwhelming, or was the process fairly clear to apply for whatever resources you could get?

[Joanne Kimm]

The application process can be quite daunting. It's very intimate in what you submit because, of course, you're telling a stranger or a medical professional you've never met why you think you deserve this, and that can be hard for someone to express. It's like somebody asking you what you do in your job. You just do it. You don't think about the exact duties in what you do.

In filling out the application, I had to ask my husband some very interesting questions, and I found out some scary answers. For example, he had to hang upside down just to fix machines and things like that, and he injured himself doing this or that and I never heard about it. It was pretty scary to me.

These applications can be quite intense for some members, especially, I think, for those suffering from psychological afflictions. It can be hard to relive those on paper and try to express what happened without it triggering something.

In the case of my husband, just filling this out made me very upset and sad, and I felt really bad for what he had to go through. We, as a family, don't know what our spouses do in their positions. My biggest fear when he was at sea was what would happen if there was a fire. That was my biggest worry while he was away, but then to hear the other things while filling out this application was pretty shocking to me.

I'm sorry. I've gone off a bit.

The applications can be quite complicated and they take time.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

That's all for now, but I'm going to use the chair's prerogative to ask a follow-up question, if I can, because it sounded like that's where that was headed. You talked about the lengthy...the stuff you learned and how much there was involved in all of that. Can you share with us if you think that was overdoing it? For example, there were probably things that would have been on his file from his time in CAF, which would have meant you didn't have to go through all that again.

Did you find that you were asked to do this over and over again, or was it only one time that you had to share all of this information with one person at Veterans Affairs? We've often heard from veterans that they end up having to reshare it multiple times with multiple people. Was that your experience, or was yours better than that? I hope it was.

[Joanne Kimm]

Just so I understand, you're not talking about the application, but in general.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

Yes. What you were referring to was having to give a lot of information about things that you weren't even aware of and that probably aren't easy to have to share with someone you don't know.

We've often heard from veterans, for example, that stuff that would have been on their file already could have been shared by the CAF with VAC. It would have prevented them from having to go through that stuff or having to retell that story to two, three or seven different people at Veterans Affairs over the course of some time, rather than just having to tell it once, which really is what should happen, I would say.

Was your experience that you had to retell this, or were you able to have it be just a one-time experience?

[Joanne Kimm]

Luckily for us, I only had to retell it a couple of times.

You mentioned something interesting, in that much of this would have been in his file. A lot of it wasn't in their everyday duties. Sometimes you don't see that on a formal piece of paper, because if they're firefighting or if they're doing this or that, you're not going to see some of these details. Therefore, when he's reliving it to me and I have to notate it or tell somebody, to learn of that was, like I mentioned, surprising and shocking.

To answer your question, I've only had to retell it a few times, but each time, yes, it is difficult.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Blake Richards]

I would submit that more than once is too often.

Thank you for sharing your experience with us on that.

We have two more rounds of two and a half minutes. The first will go to the Conservative Party and Mrs. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Joanne, you mentioned that you were surprised that asbestos was what Veterans Affairs indicated was the cause of your husband's cancer. Did they require a doctor's diagnosis to verify that? Could you provide a quick yes or no, since I have a couple more questions? Did they simply say, “This is what caused it and that's why you're getting the funding”?

[Joanne Kimm]

They just said that.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay. Thank you.

You talked a lot about the lump sum. It sounds as if the two of you knew what you were doing with that fund. Of course, a lot of times, young guys suddenly have this money and it goes to the wind. I think educating veterans on how it would work best for them might be a good thing to offer. I'm wondering about that.

Also, now that you've been through this process to some degree, do you feel the lump sum versus the monthly pension will work better for you, following your husband's passing away? Do you see a difference, or are you happy with the fact that you've managed it well? That is what I am asking.

[Joanne Kimm]

It's a good question to ask. Thank you.

How you approach that depends on your circumstances, I feel. In the letter of acceptance, they offer financial assistance if you need it.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Good.