Evidence of meeting #111 for Veterans Affairs in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was forward.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Paul Ledwell  Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs

The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg

I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting number 111 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motions adopted by the committee on March 9 and December 5, 2023, the committee is resuming its study of the recognition of Persian Gulf veterans and wartime service.

Today's meeting is taking place in hybrid format. Remember that comments must be addressed through the chair.

For the first hour, I have the honour to introduce the Honourable Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Minister of Veterans Affairs.

She's joined by Paul Ledwell, deputy minister, and Mitch Freeman, director general, policy and research. They both come from Veterans Affairs.

I would like to welcome the three of you.

Minister, you have five minutes for your opening remarks. The members of Parliament will then ask you questions.

Minister, you have the floor.

3:30 p.m.

Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe New Brunswick

Liberal

Ginette Petitpas Taylor LiberalMinister of Veterans Affairs

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I also want to promise you that I'll speak slowly.

The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg

Sorry, but I must interrupt.

Mr. May, do you have a problem with translation?

Bryan May Liberal Cambridge, ON

I beg your pardon, Mr. Chair. It might be just mine, but I could not hear any translation at all.

The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg

Do you have access to the interpretation now, while I'm speaking in French?

Bryan May Liberal Cambridge, ON

No.

Rachel Blaney NDP North Island—Powell River, BC

Make sure the sound is very loud.

Bryan May Liberal Cambridge, ON

It's as high as it will go.

You can continue. It's just me.

The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg

Okay, but you're important.

I'm sorry, Minister. Please start again.

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Once again, I promise that I'll try to speak slowly to make things easier for the interpreters.

Thank you so much for the invitation to appear before committee today.

To begin, let me first say that our government is grateful for the dedicated service of all Canadian members of the Canadian Armed Forces and veterans, including those who served in the Persian Gulf from 1990 to 1991. More than 4,000 Canadians were part of the international coalition of nations that fought to return freedom to the people of Kuwait.

Over 30 years later, we recognize that many military members have paid a heavy price for serving under such stressful conditions.

In terms of recognition, we understand that some Persian Gulf veterans are wondering about the designation of their service in this conflict.

Under the current legislative framework and designation practices within the CAF, the Persian Gulf is designated as the highest level of risk, a special duty area.

Throughout the years, veterans shared that the programs delivered under the Pension Act were no longer meeting the needs of modern-day CAF veterans and their families.

Changing demographics coupled with the need to respond to the changing needs of modern-day veterans prompted a replacement of the Pension Act in 2006, which was supported by all parties in the House of Commons at the time.

The new veterans charter, later called the Veterans Well-being Act, provides comprehensive rehabilitation, medical, psychosocial and vocational support, financial benefits, disability benefits, career transition services, access to the public service health care plan, and one-on-one case management for the most complex cases.

While the Pension Act addressed the needs of veterans through a single method of support, the disability pension, the Veterans Well-being Act was designed to provide a more varied suite of benefits in order to meet veterans where they were in terms of post-service needs.

Whereas most First and Second World War veterans were leaving the military in similar stages of life and therefore had similar needs, modern-day era veterans can make this transition at any stage, whether early on in their careers or later in life.

Through the Veterans Well-being Act, the government announced its pension for life plan, which reintroduced lifelong monthly payments with the pain and suffering compensation; established a new recognition benefit, the additional pain and suffering compensation; and introduced the income replacement benefit to simplify VAC's financial support programs by streamlining six different financial benefits into one, that being the new income replacement benefit.

We brought in better supports for the families of ill and injured veterans, including their caregivers, by eliminating time limits on vocational rehabilitation for veterans’ survivors and spouses, expanding access to military family resource centres and introducing the caregiver recognition benefit.

To meet the growing demands and needs of our veterans, our government has invested $11 billion in benefits and services.

We've also made changes to improve mental health care by introducing the automatic approval of mental health care claims. That way, veterans can get the help that they need when they need it.

Modern veterans, including those who served in the Persian Gulf, have sacrificed for our country. We owe them a debt of gratitude that can never fully be repaid.

I assure you that I take my responsibility as Minister of Veterans Affairs seriously. As a government, we're committed to ensuring that veterans receive the support needed during their transition and after their service.

This commitment also extends to the commemorative aspects of recognition, which can affect how veterans see themselves and feel appreciated by their fellow citizens.

It is my priority to ensure that veterans are recognized for their service, no matter where and when they served, whether it was in the Persian Gulf serving on humanitarian missions, supporting Canadians impacted by the forest fires in Jasper, or through search and rescue operations.

As veterans' week draws near, I want veterans and their families to know that we're thinking of them and that we recognize their many sacrifices in the service of Canada. We would like to thank them.

Lastly, to those veterans who are here, who have also shared their stories during this study, I want to say a sincere thank you. To all those who are listening today, thank you for your service to Canada. We truly remain a grateful nation.

With that, Mr. Chair, we are prepared to take some questions from committee members.

Thank you.

The Chair Liberal Emmanuel Dubourg

Thank you very much, Minister. It was exactly five minutes.

Let's go to the first round of questions.

I invite the vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Blake Richards, for six minutes, please.

3:35 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

Minister, I first had the chance to ask you this particular question at this committee about a year ago. Today, in your opening remarks, you expressed your appreciation for service, including the service in the Persian Gulf. Just like then, today you were again not clear on the question that's really at the heart of this matter. Was the Persian Gulf war a war?

I'd like to ask you the same question I asked you a year ago. Do you believe the Persian Gulf war was, in fact, a war?

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

First of all, thank you so much, Mr. Richards, for that question. I'm always pleased to be appearing before the ACVA committee.

I do remember, very well, that last year you asked me that specific question. First and foremost, I want to thank all of the members, the more than 4,000 men and women who served in the Persian Gulf war, and I say “war”.

We have to recognize that the men and women who served in the Persian Gulf were in harm's way, number one. They were also outside of the safety of Canada, and they signed up for this mission.

Do I consider this a war? I would consider it a war. With respect to the legislation, however, my definition as to what I qualify as a war does not necessarily mean that the legal definition in the legislation does the same.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

Fine.

Having said that, does that then mean there needs to be a change in the legislation? Would you support a change in the legislation to designate these heroes as having served during wartime service?

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Once again, we have to take a few steps back in looking at the Government of Canada.... All the different governments of the day have certainly looked at reviewing these different types of benefits.

First and foremost, if we take a long step back, back in the early 1900s, when we first put the pensions of the day in place, they were there to meet the needs of the First World War and the Second World War. As I said in my opening remarks, the realities back then, and the needs of veterans back then, are very different from their needs today.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

I'm sorry. I'm going to interrupt you, because, obviously, the time is limited.

We're well aware of the circumstances around different.... You mentioned them in your opening remarks. We've heard them at this committee. The question really comes down to this: “Would you support a change that would enable these veterans to get the recognition they deserve, which is that they served during wartime service?” That's really a yes or no question.

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Mr. Richards, I welcome the study that committee members are doing—

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

Do you support—

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

—and I welcome the recommendations that will be brought forward.

Again, I think it's truly important to make sure that we listen to our stakeholders and that we listen to those men and women who served in the Persian Gulf. I truly look forward to receiving the recommendations from this committee.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

I'll just note that we didn't get a clear response to that question.

Let me ask you this. The last time you were here, you made the contention that it wasn't within your role to be able to make this change. It was within the Minister of National Defence's role. Is that still your contention?

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

The decision for this type of change to be made is in the purview of the Minister of National Defence, in consultation with the Minister of Veterans Affairs and Associate Minister of National Defence.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

Okay. I appreciate that. We received a clear response there, at least.

Let me move to another topic that's very pertinent, with Remembrance Day coming up. In France, for the official commemorations by the Government of Canada on the 80th anniversary of D-Day, there were no prayers said by the military chaplains present. Now, at other ceremonies that were held by our allies or by other organizations, there were in fact prayers said.

Can you tell me why that was the case? Why were there no prayers said by the military chaplains at these ceremonies put on by the Government of Canada?

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

I would say, Mr. Richards, that I attended many of those ceremonies with you while we were in France. Prayers are moments of reflection. I really don't necessarily remember the exact words said by the chaplains, but in no way were any chaplains within the Canadian Armed Forces told that they were not allowed or permitted to say words of prayer. If they chose to make statements of reflection or prayers, either-or was absolutely appropriate and available.

3:40 p.m.

Conservative

Blake Richards Conservative Banff—Airdrie, AB

Minister, it's your contention, then, that there was no directive from your department that they could not. I know there is a directive in existence, of course, put out by the chaplain general of the Canadian Armed Forces, that indicates that prayers are not to be read by chaplains at those types of ceremonies.

Is it your contention that Veterans Affairs is not bound by that directive and did not make any direction to the chaplains that they couldn't pray, and that the chaplains themselves chose not to? Is that your contention?

Ginette Petitpas Taylor Liberal Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB

Mr. Richards, like you and many members of this committee, we attend many Remembrance Day events across the country. Prayers are oftentimes part of those services.

With respect to the prayers and the moments of reflection that happened—