Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 28th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Now, let's go to Mrs. Cathay Wagantall for five minutes.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you very much, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

Can you remind me about the age stipulation for modern-day veterans when they end their service?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I'm sorry. Could you speak a bit louder?

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Sure.

You were talking about modern-day veterans and the difference.... You were talking about the age they were at when they returned home and therefore had a lot of time left to do other things.

What was the age you mentioned?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

With respect to the modern-day veterans we're seeing right now—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

What is the age?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Among individuals retiring from the Canadian Armed Forces at this present time, the average age is 37 years old.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

What was the average age of wartime veterans when they returned home?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Again, I don't have that number in front of me, but I can ask my staff if they are aware.

Mitch or Paul.

[Paul Ledwell, Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs]

I don't believe we have that number.

Most of the wartime veterans, certainly in the First World War and the Second World War, would have been conscripts. They would have volunteered to serve. They would all have left at the same time, roughly, as well, so they were all releasing soon after each of those wars.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Would you say that they were probably a lot younger when they returned home?

[Paul Ledwell]

It could vary. There were some older servicewomen and servicemen as well.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

I was just questioning why we had to come up with a different term. The argument was that they were younger. One of the arguments was that hundreds of thousands of volunteers and conscripts who took part in the First World War, Second World War, and Korean War were proportionally.... The changing of it to “modern-day veterans” is because we are dealing with proportionally much smaller numbers of military personnel now who made their careers in the CAF in the decades that followed.

I don't understand why, if there was a smaller number of military personnel proportionally compared to those who served in those initial wars, we felt we needed to make a change to their funding.

Am I hearing you right? Are you saying that you, as Minister of Veterans Affairs, could not determine this for Gulf War veterans? Couldn't we change it to wartime service? The veterans minister couldn't make that designation, could she?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

No, she cannot, not by herself.

If I may, Mrs. Wagantall—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

No. I want to make the comparison, because the truth of the matter is that the Department of National Defence, from hearing the witness who came to this committee, also cannot designate an operation as a wartime service.

I think we're pulling people's leg here, because neither of you can do it. National Defence can't do it, and neither can Veterans Affairs. What is the reason for that? Do you know?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Once again, Mrs. Wagantall, when you mentioned the needs of veterans being different for First World War and Second World War veterans, today—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Why can you not make that change? It's legislated.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

That's exactly what I said earlier.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

That's exactly the truth of the matter. It doesn't matter what this committee comes up with.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

If the committee comes up with a recommendation with respect to legislative changes, those are the types of things that we're going to have.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

You already know those things. That's what I'm saying. This isn't new.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Please speak in turn.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

I'm choosing to respond.

In the midst of the circumstances, the point is that, as minister, you know, and the Minister of National Defence knows, this requires a legislative change. Am I correct?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I have made that very clear today, Mrs. Wagantall.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you.

I don't believe that it's coming through as clearly as it should, because the reality is that we have people here who were impacted by a significant change. I'm not arguing that there isn't a more varied suite of services, because I believe there is. I keep hearing they may be entitled to the services, maybe, maybe, maybe.

What has frustrated many of our veterans is that they're told over and over again that these circumstances are better, yet the fight to get them is extensive, and the backlogs are extensive. There isn't a sense they are better off. Perhaps they should be.

You talk about how there's a far smaller portion of military personnel compared to back then, yet those who served back then have not had the issues that our modern-day veterans have with the system that is in front of them. There is a great deal of angst there that has been brought on by a change over which they didn't have any influence. They are simply faced with it.

Can you tell me, for the Korean veterans, what their designation was when they went?