Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 28th, 2024

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you.

Minister, there were high risks involved. As you said, this conflict involved the highest level of risk that people can face. This was no small conflict. The risks were high, and these military members made sacrifices. This wasn't recognized properly after April 1, 2006.

Do you agree with this?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I'm not sure that I understood your question, Mr. Desilets.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Some military members left part of their health. It was a war. We agree on the word “war”, except that it isn't recognized properly.

Do you agree with this?

We're talking about the compensation provided after the war.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

The men and women who took part in this war, in this mission, deserve all the respect in the world from this committee and from me personally.

Again, we want to make sure that these men and women can access the services that they need.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

How can you explain the absence of the word “war” on the war memorial here in Ottawa when it refers to the South African War of 1899‑1902, for example?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

This monument, where hundreds if not thousands of Canadians gather on November 11, bears many inscriptions. During your consultations and committee meetings, you heard about a lack of consensus regarding the inscriptions on the monument.

I look forward to receiving the committee's recommendations. I think that we must hear Canadians' comments on what they want to see inscribed on this monument, which is very personal and intimate for Canadians.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You said that Veterans Affairs Canada was somehow bound by the legislation and that this responsibility fell to the Minister of National Defence, if I understood you correctly.

Is that what you said?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I said that this fell under the minister's responsibility, but also—and I just want to clarify this point—that I, as minister, should be consulted.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Good.

Would you be willing to table a bill to give Veterans Affairs Canada back its authority in these matters?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Again, Mr. Desilets, we need to hear all the testimony and receive your committee's recommendations. In the meantime, I look forward to reviewing the report and providing the government's response to this study.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Good.

Thank you, Ms. Petitpas Taylor.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Now let's go to Ms. Blaney for six minutes, please.

Go ahead.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much, Chair, and as always, everything I say goes through the chair.

First of all, I'd like to thank the minister and her folks for being here with us today to talk about this really important issue.

The first question I have is around harmonizing benefits. We have heard from multiple Gulf War veterans that their concerns are legitimately about getting what they deserve and need. They really want that acknowledgement.

For example, Senator Patterson came in to visit us and talked about harmonizing benefits. We know that in 2019, the ombud made a recommendation that talked about harmonizing benefits. Something that veterans have brought up to me repeatedly is this fear and concern about one set of veterans getting one type of benefit and others getting a different one.

I recognize that it was a vote that was done in the House that everybody supported, but I believe that we've heard enough that harmonizing benefits should be part of the discussion.

I'm wondering if there is any work happening in the department around that.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

First and foremost, thank you for the question, Ms. Blaney.

I also wanted to take a moment to congratulate you on your new appointment as PSPC critic. I was happy to see that you're not leaving VAC, because we've done some good work. You've done some really good work, and the women would be very disappointed if you were brought on to another committee. Thank you and congratulations on that. I look forward to being at your event this evening as well. That's just to say that.

The harmonization of both acts.... I know that this committee has heard this from some witnesses who have come forward, one of them being Senator Patterson. I think both acts are vital in our efforts to support veterans. Both acts are significant. Again, I don't want to review the history behind it all, but I can tell you that when I speak to Veterans Affairs case managers or agents who work with veterans, they tell me that the newest revision of this act has actually provided veterans with many more tools to be able to move on to the next phase of their life.

When we talk about the seven domains of wellness for our veterans, those were areas that were not even addressed with the past pensions that we had. It was because we wanted to make sure that veterans are able to gain effective control of their lives and to move on that the revision, if you will, of the Veterans Well-being Act was done. It was because we wanted to make sure that veterans qualify for the financial and compensation benefits.

It's also because so many veterans are exiting the Canadian Armed Forces at a much younger age. We want to make sure we're setting them up for success and addressing the barriers they may face. These are things like providing them with mental health counselling and supports and making sure they have access to vocational training. I know you are all familiar with the programs that Veterans Affairs offers. That is really vital, and we want to make sure they have access to that.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

One thing I found really startling was a lot of the testimony that we heard about a lack of awareness or acceptance within Veterans Affairs around the Gulf War syndrome. In fact, just a few days ago, we had Mr. Bruyea and Ms. Richard here with many stacks of applications and appeals. The paperwork was quite daunting.

My concern is that veterans who served us during that time are having to prove Gulf War syndrome repeatedly and are having to go through an appeal process that delays and delays. Of course, like any community that served together, they talk to one another. We see this again and again with veterans. It defeats not only the people facing the challenge but also the people who served before they even put their foot in the front door.

I'm just wondering if there is any work that's being done to address this issue, so that when people come forward with these types of serious health issues that are very well documented and researched in other countries, but maybe not so much in Canada...to stop that.

It goes back to what I've spoken about before, which is that we really need trauma-informed services. People who have gone through serious trauma while they're serving this country need people on the other end of the phone who understand that trauma can impact people in a very particular way.

Having to prove your illness again and again and having to feel that you're fighting for your basic rights is not what we want to see. I'm just wondering if any work is happening around acknowledging these illnesses, to make the duty less burdensome on the veterans who serve us.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I have three points that I'll make very quickly. I know that we're short on time here.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

You have one minute and a half.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

First and foremost is trauma-informed training for our staff. That was a recommendation that was made in the last study that you did. I am absolutely committed to making sure that our staff at Veterans Affairs Canada receive trauma-informed training, specifically when working with our veteran population.

Number two, when it comes to the issue of Gulf War syndrome, any veteran who has been injured as a result of a service-related matter, if any of them are listening to us today, should contact Veterans Affairs Canada. If there is a need, we want to be there to help them.

I was told just recently, through the department, that when a veteran comes forward with a Gulf War syndrome issue, if you will, if their claim has been denied, that claim is going to be sent to a health professional within Veterans Affairs Canada. We want that file to be reviewed. Perhaps one of my colleagues can elaborate a bit on that afterwards. We want to make sure that the file is reviewed in its totality to make sure that we haven't missed anything.

Finally, you talked about delay. That, however, will create a delay in the processing of the file, because we are putting another step in that. That process is done automatically when it comes to individuals who come forward with those types of issues or illnesses.

I don't know if Paul or Mitch wants to elaborate.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I'm sorry. We will come back, because the time is already up. We will come back in the next round.

We have this round of 25 minutes. We may be able to ask you more questions.

I invite Mr. Fraser Tolmie for five minutes, please.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for joining us today.

Minister, in your opening statement, I may have heard you wrong, but you referred to the Gulf War as a humanitarian effort. I know that a portion of that was a humanitarian effort. We've heard how our forces were in harm's way.

There was one question from my colleague, Mr. Richards. You said that you personally felt that Canadians who served in the Gulf War.... It was a war in your own personal definition. I appreciate that. Thank you for sharing that, but you said that legislation has a different definition from what you consider to be a war. Could you tell me what legislation you're referring to?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Again, I did not bring the copy of the legislation to have in front of me, but I am more than happy to table it for you at my earliest convenience.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

I appreciate that; thank you so much.

I think that this legislation is important. You also mentioned that it was under the Minister of National Defence's purview, and yours, as the associate. I feel like we're halfway there.

What is stopping you from calling the Minister of National Defence and saying, “Let's settle this. Let's call this a war, and let's get this done and dealt with”?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

That is why this committee is undertaking this very important study at the moment. I have met with several veterans from the Gulf War over the past 14 months, and they wanted this study to be undertaken.

I again want to thank all of the committee members for doing this important study and for listening to the veterans and the stakeholders on the matter. I truly look forward to receiving the recommendations from the committee.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Through you, Mr. Chair, I feel that you already agree. I think we do important work in this committee. We already have the same answer, so I think we're already there.

If we say that we call it a war, are you going to say to the minister, “Yes, let's call it a war”?