Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

I call this meeting to order.

Good morning. Welcome to meeting number 114 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Monday, January 29, 2024, the committee is resuming its study of the experience of indigenous veterans and Black veterans.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, and as a reminder, all comments should be addressed through the chair.

I would like to welcome the witnesses for this meeting.

From the Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association, we have Mr. Richard Blackwolf, national president. Welcome.

From the Veterans Association Food Bank, we have Ms. Marie Blackburn, executive director, and Tommy Wayne Benjamin, store clerk, Veterans Association Thrift Store. Welcome.

You will have five minutes for your opening statement. After that, members of the committee will ask you some questions.

I'm going to start with you, Mr. Blackwolf. You can speak for five minutes, please.

[Richard Blackwolf, National President, Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association]

Good morning, Chairman Dubourg and honourable members of the committee. Thank you for your invitation to appear before you and make submissions on indigenous veterans' experiences.

My name is Richard Blackwolf. I am the national president of the Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association. I am a Métis veteran of the Cold War era, having joined the Royal Canadian Navy in 1959, serving for a combination of 38 years in the navy and the Department of National Defence.

The Canadian Aboriginal Veterans and Serving Members Association, or CAV, is incorporated and has functioned as a nationwide indigenous veterans advocate for the past 54 years. This year, 2024, marks the 212th year that indigenous men and women have voluntarily enlisted to serve in the armed forces of Canada.

For time, I will move ahead.

In a quest for information, to gather information on our veterans' experience, both in the armed forces and after being released from the armed forces, we sent out 2,000 requests for their personal experience.

In terms of transition to civilian life, indigenous service personnel retiring after a full career with a pension and good health have experienced the least problems in transitioning to civilian life, as expected. Indigenous personnel who are forced to leave the military early in their career, largely because of medical problems, have experienced the most problems transitioning to civilian life. These are summaries of the many hundreds we've received.

A soldier reported that she was forced to leave the army because of PTSD. She received mental health treatment while in the army, and after she was released she received no mental health support from Veterans Affairs. With two young children to support, her need for mental health stability for employment is of the utmost importance, creating an immediate need for her to receive the appropriate mental health treatment. We have advised her to contact the veterans ombud for help in obtaining Veterans Affairs assistance.

In terms of veterans' housing, indigenous veterans returning to their first nations reserve have experienced the least problems in housing. Indigenous veterans forced to leave the military, being discharged mainly for health reasons, having no reserve to return to and having no likelihood of employment, are at the highest risk of becoming homeless and drug-addicted in urban centres.

In terms of shelters and food banks, our national website is currently being rebuilt after an 11-year run of 1.3 million visitors. Our veterans service page will provide indigenous veterans and their families with a comprehensive listing of shelters, health clinics and food banks available in the provinces and territories.

In terms of Veterans Affairs, the most frequent complaints received from indigenous veterans arise from the disconnect between Veterans Affairs' invitation to open an account and make application for disabilities benefits, which appears on their web page, and how then they find their applications being subject to “delay and deny” discouragement tactics. The sense of personal integrity of indigenous veterans with health and mental health issues can be severely impacted by the experience of feeling disbelieved, essentially being called a liar by Veterans Affairs when they receive rulings in letters denying them entitlement.

We consider this standard practice of denied entitlement rulings on first applications for disability benefits to be a deliberate breach of the right in the Veterans Bill of Rights to be treated with respect, dignity and fairness.

In my own experience of sending a Veterans Affairs application for disability benefits for hearing loss and tinnitus, the first result was the same thing: “We regret to inform you that you have been denied entitlement for hearing loss and tinnitus.”

Two years later, it's the other way around. It took two years, but hearing loss entitlement is granted at five-fifths for tinnitus and hearing.

In summary, the 2015 stakeholders meeting held at the Citadelle in Quebec City was considered the best and gave us cause to believe that there would be positive changes at Veteran Affairs.

The main cause for delays in the processing of applications for disability benefits cited by Veteran Affairs was the interface delay in the progress of documents between DND records and Veteran Affairs. The delay was caused by the Privacy Act. The CAV made two proposals to expedite the transfer of records from DND to Veteran Affairs: an amendment to the Privacy Act and for the Minister of Veterans Affairs to also be the deputy minister of the national defence.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Mr. Blackwolf, I know that you're not finished yet, but members of the committee will ask you questions so that you can go further in your testimony.

[Richard Blackwolf]

In that case, I will say my last words to the committee.

Thank you, Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee. Thank you for your generous attention. Merci. Meegwetch.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

Now we'll go to Marie Blackburn, for five minutes.

[Marie Blackburn, Executive Director, Veterans Association Food Bank]

I don't think I have five minutes, but you never know.

I'm Marie Blackburn and I am the executive director for the Veterans Association Food Bank in Calgary. I want to thank all of you for your invitation to have us here today. This is such an important thing. It's always good when we can work together to improve the quality of life for our veterans.

I started the veterans association as there are many veterans out there who don't have access to Veterans Affairs because they weren't medically injured during their time of service. We fill that gap for other people. Our goal is simply to prevent homelessness, hunger, isolation and ultimately veteran suicide. When you have those first three in place, you give people hope for the rest.

When I was asked to participate, I was happy to contribute information that can hopefully be a learning experience for all involved.

In my past six years of assisting veterans, I've heard stories from indigenous veterans in particular that are disturbing and very sad.

I had a woman veteran who required shelter after her house had burned down. We usually call Veterans Affairs first to see if they can help with some of the assistance. The Veterans Affairs worker said to me that she couldn't give her the money directly because they just drink it away. I asked if that's because she's indigenous and she said that yes, that's the way it is. I said that I happened to be indigenous too, and that I don't have the same sentiments as she did.

When I encouraged the woman to talk to Veterans Affairs, she was terrified to report anything because she didn't want to lose the benefits that she had. With my confidence to her, I'm not allowed to say anything, but things like that are happening quite frequently, whether you're indigenous or not. If there is something that's happening between a worker and a client, they are not reporting it because they are afraid of losing things.

My other story is a little bit worse. I was told this by another lady veteran who served in Afghanistan and is pretty highly decorated. She needed help with a back injury claim. The Veterans Affairs worker said to her that if she can lie on her back to get pregnant, perhaps her claim isn't all that valid.

I've had indigenous veterans who have never had a claim generated because they were told they were not eligible, even though they clearly were. I've been told that once they transitioned out, they felt they had no support from Veterans Affairs whatsoever, for whatever reasons.

Our organization has built positive and strong relations with Veteran Affairs and is now addressing claims for indigenous veterans. It may not seem like many, but to date we've helped out eight to 10 veterans who, over the past 15 to 20 years, have been told that they weren't eligible for benefits or were too scared after the first denial to try to do anything different.

We know that those numbers will grow now that they have a safe place that they trust and that we will at least advocate for them and hope that they can get the benefits they're entitled to.

I do believe that teaching so many people about truth and reconciliation opened the doors for people to be more kind and understanding. Opening a door where they can actually come to us—Tommy is a big advocate for what we do—means these indigenous veterans will now start getting some of the benefits that they've been entitled to for many years, but have been denied.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Go ahead, Mr. Benjamin.

[Tommy Wayne Benjamin, Store Clerk, Veterans Association Thrift Store, Veterans Association Food Bank]

Thank you.

Good morning, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, members of the committee.

My name is Tommy Benjamin. I'm originally from Old Crow, Yukon Territory. I live in Calgary, Alberta. I'm a Gwich'in veteran.

In 1982, I enlisted in the Canadian Armed Forces. My basic training was at Canadian Forces Base Cornwallis in Nova Scotia. At that time, there were a large number of recruits from across the Arctic and the high Arctic who were a part of CFB Cornwallis training. At that time, we were also known as Indians and Eskimos. We're now known as first nations, so I'll use that term in my presentation.

The training staff immediately began to weed the first nations recruits out of the ranks. The term now, I believe, is “systemic racism.” I was assaulted at 2:30 in the morning by training staff. I was grabbed by my ankle and thrown to the floor from the top bunk I was assigned to. I was asleep at the time.

Today I have back problems. I had concussion issues at the time. I still managed to serve with those conditions.

One by one, the first nations recruits were breaking down, and some of them were crying because they were unfairly picked on. For the Inuit recruits, their last names were being mocked by the training staff during this time.

Racism and discrimination continued throughout my time in the military. I left the military early because of the abuse that I was serving under, the abuse that was happening to me and my fellow first nations recruits and members of the Canadian Armed Forces.

In my transition out of the military, I had a lot of difficulties. I still do today. I had a lot of difficulties with alcoholism and drug addiction, not to mention anxiety, social anxiety, a history of homelessness, unemployment and poverty—the list could go on forever. I experienced it. I lived it.

In 2007, as part of a clinic that first nations people go to in Calgary, they sent me for a diagnosis. Within half an hour, the results came back that I had chronic complex post-traumatic stress disorder from my experience in the military.

There was no such phrase as “transition out of the military” when I served, so I had a lot of difficulties with transferring out of the military. I always say that my mom didn't get the same person back that she sent to the military.

Today, I have to say that this is my fifth time applying for benefits with the Veterans Association Food Bank in Calgary, with their Veterans Association set-up and with David J. Thompson, who's the aboriginal liaison engagement officer who reviewed my file and said that I should have been on benefits in 2015.

I'm still in the process of applying for benefits. I pray that I will get them, because at this point I'm on what is called AISH in the province of Alberta. It's assured income for the severely handicapped that my doctor put me on.

That in itself, I believe, is my presentation. I thank you for your attention.

Ottawa is a beautiful city. It's my first time here. Thank you for having us.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Benjamin. I hope that you will take the time to visit the city.

Also, thank you for your courage to share your story with us today. It's really important for members of the committee.

Now we're going to start the first round of questions and answers.

I'll start with the vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Blake Richards, for six minutes, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

First of all, Mr. Blackwolf and Mr. Benjamin, thank you for your service to our country. Thank you to all three of you for your service to fellow veterans.

Mr. Blackwolf referenced the triple-D policy that we often hear about from veterans.

This is a question I have for you, Marie. Mr. Blackwolf mentioned the triple-D policy that we often hear about from veterans. He mentioned it as delay, deny, discouragement. I kind of like that, because usually we hear it as delay, deny, die.

Mr. Benjamin, you're experiencing delays, obviously. I have to tell you the stories that we heard from you are completely unacceptable as to what happened to you.

Marie, the stories that you heard of what VAC caseworkers told the individuals you talked about are completely unacceptable. Thank you for sharing them with us, because we need to know those things.

Marie, you told me a story when I visited with you recently that really illustrates the delay, deny, die, triple-D policy.

Would you mind sharing that with this committee for the benefit of everyone?

[Marie Blackburn]

Yes, I can.

It was a hot summer day last year, and the air conditioning went out in the building, and I thought, you know what? I'm going to scoot out of here early and go home and have some gin and tonics on my deck and just cool down.

I'd seen this car in the parking lot all day long. He'd come and he'd go. He'd come, he'd go, and then he was just sitting there. When I was leaving, he came and tapped me on the shoulder and asked, “Are you able to help me?” I said, “What is it you need?” You could tell he was very stressed out and nervous, and he said that just needed some help with some family bills. We went back into that sweltering hot building, and we did the intake on him. He needed to pay his mortgage. He had no food for his family. He was behind on all of his bills. I said, “It's not a problem. We can pay all of that for you”. Off he went, and off I went.

Then he called me about two months later, and he thanked me, because his family unit was back together. His wife and he had sorted out things. The kids were back in their soccer games, whatever the case may be. He said to me, “I just want you to know that would have been my last day on earth had you not helped me, because I had a gun under my seat, and if you had said no, I would have blown out my brains in your parking lot.”

This is just another example of how long people are waiting to get these benefits that they're eligible for. It's ridiculous, really. It is. This is why we say that our mandate is to ultimately prevent veteran suicide. We are sort of between Veterans Affairs and the client to make sure that we can pay their bills, we can help with their kids or we can put food on their table. I don't know how you fix waiting for these benefits for as long as they have to sometimes, but something like this might give you a better understanding to figure out what we go through as boots on the ground .

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Well, thank God for you and the Veterans Association Food Bank—not just for that situation, but for many others like it. The fact that you're there is something that I'm sure we all appreciate, but you shouldn't have to be there. This should never get to where they need to come to you with the thoughts that veteran had because they couldn't get what they needed.

You know, Tommy talked about his situation. It's the same kind of a thing. He's waiting for stuff that is owed to him. It should never be the case, and it needs to be fixed. Thank you for sharing that with the committee.

I guess I'll broaden things out a little bit here.

Marie, I'll stick with you on this.

We're hearing from food banks that serve veterans all across the country that they are seeing massive increases over the last several years with the cost of living crisis and everything else. I've heard of four or five times increases in the need for services at some food banks.

Can you tell us a little bit about the situation that you've experienced in Calgary and what kind of demand there's been on your services?

[Marie Blackburn]

It's literally been astronomical. Our rental increases in Calgary are just ridiculous. The rents are going from, say, $1,500 a month with raises anywhere from six hundred dollars to a thousand dollars a month extra.

In the whole year, we've had 38 veterans whom we've actually physically housed in hotels until we can find them another place. That's not always so easy, because if they're paying $1,500 a month here and they're evicted because the landlord has raised the rent $500, you're not going to find another place for $1,500. They just don't exist.

We calculated that one stay for a veteran in a hotel for three months, which is about the average until we get them situated, is about $10,000. On top of that, when they move, they have to have furniture, clothing, food and whatever, and those.... They are just our general people coming to use the food bank. In Edmonton, for example, over 200 veterans access the veterans' food bank every month. Ours is around 100. We have offices in Grande Prairie and Lethbridge, and there are around 50 people in those smaller communities.

It's just everything. We pay people's rent if they can't afford it. We now are subsidizing rents, because it's almost cheaper to subsidize a rent than to remove them and place them in a hotel somewhere. Our numbers over a six-month period literally tripled for the amount of money we're spending on keeping veterans housed, clothed, fed and in their homes.

It's like that everywhere. We have, every day, people from just the community asking us for help because they need food, but we can't because we only service our military veterans.

Blake, it's just sad what's happening to our veteran community.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

It really is, but we're so thankful that organizations like yours exist.

I guess I'll just close with this: For you, what would success look like?

[Marie Blackburn]

Somebody asked me that a while ago. I said it would be if I didn't have to have keys for this door anymore and I could just shut the whole thing down and walk away, but that's not the reality. We have to have those doors open and we're on call 24-7. We have veterans who call when they're having a tough time and thinking their only way out is that suicide route. We stabilize them until morning or go and sit with them until six in the morning and whatever the case may be.

I just started this sort of on a whim and had no idea it would be this big.

I just hope we don't keep seeing a trend in this. We'd like to level it out a bit, but success would be shutting the doors forever.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Ms. Blackburn.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Now I'd like to welcome one of our colleagues, Mr. Wayne Long, to the committee. Thank you.

Now for six minutes, Ms. Lisa Hepfner, please go ahead.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Thank you, Chair. Yes, I would also like to thank all of our witnesses for their testimony today.

Mr. Benjamin, I want to echo my colleague in thanking you for your bravery in coming here to share your story. It's really hard to hear. I can't imagine having to go through it, but it's important that we have that on the record here in Parliament today. We couldn't do that if you didn't have the strength to come here and share that story. Once again, thank you.

Ms. Blackburn, thank you for the work that you're doing.

These things are hard to hear. They're really hard to hear. What our committee is trying to get at are good recommendations and ways to move forward.

You've talked a bit about how you've been able to fill some of the gaps and help guide veterans to the services that they're entitled to. Could you explain that a bit more for us, and perhaps give us some suggestions as to how we can be better at helping veterans access whatever benefits they're entitled to as soon as they leave the military?

[Marie Blackburn]

In the case of veterans who are leaving the service now, we've heard from different veterans that some of the people helping them are fantastic at getting them all the services they need. For example, we had one who served for 38 years, and he's using my food bank. Why is that happening?

We advocate for them as a go-between when they ask whether they have any benefits when they leave and are told, “No, you're good. You have your pension.”

We make sure that for every veteran who comes through that door, whether it's for food services, the Pet Promise program or the emergency fund program, the first thing we do is fill out that VAC paperwork. We've had quite a good success rate lately because of the relationships we've built with Veterans Affairs. That is the number one thing that we do.

I think we need better education. Don't be discriminatory to anybody. It doesn't matter if you're indigenous, green or yellow. Who cares? I think there has to be more in the line of teaching people that these men and women signed on the dotted line to save us and to protect us. You have a job because they have done this for you. I think really pushing that their service is that valuable in the lives that you all live is something that Veterans Affairs could really focus on.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

That's helpful. Thank you.

Recently our government created a veterans organizations emergency support fund with $20 million, and I believe your organization got some funding from that.

Can you tell us about the impact of that funding? Should it be broader? Would you would like to see it continue? How did it all work? How did you use it?

[Marie Blackburn]

We got the emergency funding in July, and we haven't even advertised. We are now able to go to Manitoba, Saskatchewan, B.C., and then also Alberta.

I took one trip out to B.C., and within an hour I had 17 new clients without even advertising anything. They are younger veterans. They are the ones who are serving and who are are going to be losing their homes because the money isn't there for them to pay for everything.

We will absolutely run out of our funding before March 1. We've asked the government what happens when that happens. I can't raise.... We do pretty well on fundraising, but I wouldn't be able to fundraise enough to support all those provinces.

We have asked what happens then, and they said that if the program's really successful, they would continue that funding, which would be amazing. On one day in Manitoba I had seven referrals because of Veterans Affairs workers knowing that we have this money now available to help the veterans, so it has been a godsend for sure.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Perhaps a good recommendation for this report would be to increase and extend that funding even further.

[Marie Blackburn]

Absolutely, it would.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

I understand that you've also been part of the Canada summer jobs program. We were just speaking about that this morning. It's the summer program whereby the government will fund certain summer students to come and work in your organization.

Have you done that for many years? What's the impact of that program?

[Marie Blackburn]

We have done it for three years. This year I had to navigate my way through the paperwork, which was not a lot of fun, but we did it. It's amazing to have summer students—they're not students; they're just summer jobs—come and just learn and embrace what veterans have done for them, their families and all of the country.

It has been super-beneficial. It has given them a lot of training and new skills to move forward, so we've been very pleased with the summer jobs program.