Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 7th, 2024

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Those five applications, Mr. Benjamin, were for the same purpose, for the same thing.

When did you apply the first time?

[Tommy Wayne Benjamin]

I would probably have to say that in 2005, I believe, post-traumatic stress disorder was on top of the application for benefits. In the five times that I applied, it was for post-traumatic stress disorder and injuries I received in the military. Basically, they were pretty much the same conditions when applying for benefits. I can't say that there were any deviations as far as injuries and conditions were concerned. Yes, I would say that it was pretty much the same thing each time I applied.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

In your opinion, is your experience, in other words, having to apply five separate times, is that common among your indigenous veteran colleagues?

[Tommy Wayne Benjamin]

In all honesty, I would have to say yes.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Do you feel like the target of racism, given the way the government is treating you?

[Tommy Wayne Benjamin]

I'm going to have to be honest and say that I have not experienced racism with my application, not in comparison with my service in the Canadian Armed Forces, which are two different things. If there is racism, I may not have experienced it, or possibly I'm not aware of it.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much for your testimony.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you, Mr. Desilets.

Let's go to Ms. Rachel Blaney for six minutes, please.

Ms. Blaney, go ahead.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you so much.

I want to thank the folks here who are our witnesses. Thank you for your service to our country, and thank you for your service to our veterans. I really deeply appreciate it.

I'm going to come to you first, Mr. Benjamin, because I'm really compelled by your story. Unfortunately, I've heard similar realities from people from different ethnic backgrounds and indigenous backgrounds who faced significant discrimination and racism during their service time, and I've heard about the lack of speed in responding to that.

I'm wondering if you could explain a few things to me.

I also want to start by apologizing, because I feel like one of the hardest parts of doing this work is that we ask people to come to this place to tell their personal stories and basically bleed in front of us so that we can prove that it's really happening. I want to apologize for the fact that this is where we're at and that it's what the system requires. I also want to say that if you feel uncomfortable, please let us know.

You said you started your service in 1982. I'm wondering if you could share with the committee how long you served.

[Tommy Wayne Benjamin]

I served possibly a few days less than two years.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you; that helps.

It sounded to me very much like part of the reason you left was based on what you were seeing. You talked about seeing Inuit people serving whose last names were being mocked, and a lot of the abuse was really profound.

I'm wondering if you could share an example of what you witnessed or experienced during your service that really was painful in terms of racism.

[Tommy Wayne Benjamin]

One incident still haunts me to this day. I used the term “weed out” because it's a military term that I believe is used to describe eliminating people from the ranks of any armed forces across the world.

One individual still haunts me to this day. I use that word compassionately, because they went after him. I remember his first name was Thomas, and he was from Kuujjuaq, I believe; they were just unmerciful to him and to all of us who, at that time, were known as Indians and Eskimos. This poor guy came to me and cried to me, and I couldn't help him because I couldn't help myself with what was going on. This was just happening, one by one, to all the Indian and Inuit veterans who were serving.

I always say that 1982 was the year that Canada's Constitution was repatriated back to Canada. For me, it was a sense of duty to serve my country. You can't serve your country with a criminal record. I didn't have a criminal record when I went into the military, but I sure got one when I came out.

I wasn't the same person I was when I went in, and to some extent I wasn't the same person I am today, but that doesn't mean I'm going to lie down and give up. I struggle at times. I'm coming back all the time.

One of the reasons I can say I'm doing better is because of this person here and her organization. She's helped me and countless other veterans a lot, including non-aboriginal veterans. It's a brotherhood and a sisterhood when we get together after being in the service. There is, I guess, a lot of forgiving, but there's probably not any forgetting.

That was my experience, and I can't deny it.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that. I think it's really important.

We recently did a study on women veterans and we heard from a lot of women who left. The reason they left was that they weren't getting the support. What you're telling me is that in trying to get that benefit, the indigenous component of veterans also often faced multiple challenges that are not documented. There's a different service that you did. When you faced that service, it meant you also had to face extreme racism, and it was traumatizing. You wanted to serve your country, not to be traumatized.

One of the other indigenous veterans who was here earlier talked about the fact that VAC doesn't have a place to bring indigenous veterans together to talk, come together and explain their experiences so that VAC can hear that feedback and really look at its services.

I'm wondering if you feel that this would be a good decision for VAC.

[Tommy Wayne Benjamin]

Absolutely, yes, I agree.

I'm sure there are going to be positives and negatives, as in anything. I would agree 101% to bring aboriginal veterans together, whether that's first nations, Inuit or Métis. There's always room to improve. Nothing is perfect. We can always make inroads and maybe even change some minds.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much.

We're going to do another round of questions for each party, for a total of 15 minutes. I ask members of the committee to try to respect the time allowed.

I'm going to start with Mr. Richards for five minutes, please.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

Thank you.

Mr. Blackwolf, you haven't had much of an opportunity with questions. I want to give you some opportunity here.

I understand that your organization was not included in the veterans organizations that were listed as partners for the King Charles Coronation Medal.

I wonder if you can tell us a little bit about why you think your organization was overlooked there and how that made you feel.

[Richard Blackwolf]

We became aware of that because people were phoning the office asking why we weren't on the list of participating organizations. When I looked at the list, we weren't there.

To start with, in our view, that exclusion was a public humiliation. When we asked about who and why, the standard answer was that the federal government had determined the list. In our view, we were publicly omitted by the federal government from participating in the King Charles medal program.

Our veterans feel that the decision to exclude the CAV was without cause or reason. They also believe it was contrary to the right to being treated fairly, with respect and dignity.

The CAV's exclusion also severs the indigenous veterans' long connection with the Crown. In our view, we have 212 years of connection with the Crown. We're very sensitive to anything that's an abuse of that connection, which is very important to us. Those were the things.

I contacted a number of people and received letters back and forth. It always ended in the same thing: The federal government had determined the list, and the list was set at 30,000 medals to be cast. We suggested, first, to respect that and not change any of those mandates. We requested a letter of introduction to the mint here in Ottawa. We would pay for our own veterans medals, to quell the groundswell that was developing of people wanting to know. We don't want roadblocks and things going up. We're trying to avoid that kind of thing.

Anyway, we haven't received anything, other than the fact that the program's running for a year.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

You've indicated to me that you've reached out to a lot of different people, including the Governor General, some of the ministers of the Trudeau government cabinet, the mint and the Prime Minister's office. What's your ultimate feeling here? Where do you think the decision on this lies? What could be done to fix it?

[Richard Blackwolf]

In every application, we've requested to know who made this decision and why, and we've yet to receive an answer to those questions. We know it came from the PMO, obviously, but we've never had that request answered.

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

This government talks a lot about reconciliation, but the actions don't always line up with it. This sounds to me like another example of the actions not lining up with the words.

[Richard Blackwolf]

I don't believe in reconciliation. You can't reconcile what has occurred. From our view, the past is the past. We don't dwell on it. As veterans, we look ahead. We are guardians of the past, and that's why we're sensitive about our connection with the Crown—

[Blake Richards, Conservative, Banff—Airdrie, AB]

I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to interrupt you.

You mentioned we're focused on the future, but you're guardians of the past, and I appreciate that very much.

What would have to be done? What would the Prime Minister's office have to do to make this right?

[Richard Blackwolf]

We should be at least graced with who made the decision and why. It just didn't involve us. For some reason, the four main veterans organizations in Canada—Canadian Aboriginal Veterans, the NATO Veterans Organization of Canada and the two peacekeepers' groups—were all out of the medal running. All those presidents have sent letters, and in a lot of cases they didn't even get an answer back.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you very much, Mr. Blackwolf.

Now let's go to MP Bryan May for five minutes.