Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 2nd, 2024

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

I think what would be helpful for the committee is to get a response back in writing that says that if this has changed, why it has changed and whether a gender-based analysis was done on it. I think that's really important for us.

I was very pleased to see that the women veterans advisory committee was announced today. There are a few names I wish were on there that are not, but we'll talk about that at a later time.

I have a few questions. One of them is around the terms of reference.

The report talks about having quarterly meetings. We know that a federal election is going to be happening next year. We know that these folks have to get together and learn a lot. I'm wondering if you can talk about whether there is any focus on having more meetings prior to the election so that they can start getting up to speed.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Ms. Blaney, I, like you, was very pleased that we were finally able to announce the council. I was very anxious and eager. It took longer than I thought and than I hoped for, but today we were finally able to make the announcement.

Last week, I called all the members personally, and I was thrilled that every one of them agreed to take part in the council. If you guys look at the names of the candidates, you'll see that they're very well suited. Many others applied. We had hundreds of people who applied to be on this council.

I've committed to the advisory council that we will be meeting in January. My team has already been in touch with them, and they've already started having those conversations. We're planning on having our first meeting in January in person, probably here in Ottawa. From there, we'll be able to look at the calendar moving forward.

They are really eager out of the gate, as I am, and really want to hit the road running and start to do the important work that we expect of them.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

Thank you for that.

It also brings me to another important conversation, and I'd love to hear from you. I am concerned that some of them have known relationships with the CAF, DND and VAC, which could represent competing interests for them to be able to speak really freely. For example, some of them are still serving. Some of them presently work for the government or work for groups or organizations that depend on VAC for their funding.

I have some examples here that I won't name, but there are people still serving. I'm wondering how this is going to be addressed. These competing interests could be a barrier for these women to speak as openly as we would like to see them speak.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

We certainly want to ensure that the representation of the council reflects serving members and retired members of both the RCMP and the CAF.

If we look at the selection process, we see that the women's council told us that they wanted to ensure that the selection of the members was not going to be by the members or by the department. The board was set up, and they worked really hard at interviewing these individuals and making sure that we had a good representation of folks who are working—CAF, RCMP—but who also have retired experience.

We expect these individuals to speak freely, of course, and to share with us their issues and their challenges.

[Rachel Blaney, NDP, North Island—Powell River, BC]

How is that going to be addressed? Are there any discussions happening about how you address those issues that are a conflict? How do you make sure this is a safe space, especially for women in uniform, to be able to share things that could be happening without experiencing retaliation?

Again and again, and during the women's study, we've heard women speak about coming out and speaking on things, and they faced really hard things during their service.

I hear you and I'm not negating any of their skill sets, but how are we making sure that those potential conflicts of interest do not become issues that delay or disrupt the work that this council is doing?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

It's an important question that you raise, Ms. Blaney, and again, we'll have those conversations with the council members in January, because I want to ensure they feel absolutely free to speak their mind.

If we want to address discrimination and barriers that women are still facing today in the Canadian Armed Forces and the RCMP, to me, it's really important to have individuals who are still presently serving now. Issues that happened 20 years ago may still be happening, but there may be new issues that are happening today as well, and that's why I feel it's really important to make sure we have folks in different parts of their career represented on this council.

[The Chair, Liberal, Emmanuel Dubourg]

Thank you so much.

As you know, we have a second round of questions. We have to give time for colleagues to ask the questions.

I'll start with Mrs. Cathay Wagantall for five minutes, please.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Thank you so much, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here, and Mr. Harris and Mr. Freeman as well.

The voted appropriations in the supplementary estimates (B) for 2024-25 are for $942.5 million. It indicates that the vast amount of that, $819.4 million, is for pain and suffering compensation. I'm looking at this, and that's a 51.6% increase compared to what was in the main estimates.

In the explanation documents in regard to this, it says that it's because of an increased number of applications, but also “a higher-than-expected number of Veterans opting for a lump-sum”, and then it goes on to say that when they apply for their pain and suffering compensation, it goes into monthly installments by default and that they have to submit a written request for a lump sum.

The goal was that they thought this would incentivize our veterans to go with a monthly installment because they have the potential to live longer than the time the lump sum will last. It's surprising to me that this is the route this is going.

I have a question right away around having to submit a written request for the lump sum. When they're applying for the compensation, are they aware that it's a default? Is there not a way to say you can make a choice here for a monthly payment or for a lump sum? Is that not part of the application?

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I'll answer part of your question, and then I'll turn it over—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Answer as briefly as possible, please.

[Ginette Petitpas Taylor, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Absolutely.

With respect to the numbers that you've shown, we are seeing, year after year, a 10% increase in applications for benefits. This year alone, we are on track for 94,000 applications to come through the department.

With respect to the lump sum and the information there, perhaps, Steven, you can just explain what is given to the—

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

How many are going to the lump sum?

[Steven Harris]

About 60% to 65% are going to the lump sum.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Are they able to say immediately that they would prefer the lump sum versus the monthly payment?

[Steven Harris]

They're not. In the legislation, it's described initially as monthly, and then they have the opportunity to select a lump sum payout.

One of the recommendations that we've had from numerous committees and others is to be able to speed up that process for veterans, and that's resulted in having the form go out with the decision letter as well, allowing decisions to be happening more quickly.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Okay, so they can't process it for the lump sum when they are actually applying. They have to wait to get it awarded, and then they get to make that decision.

[Steven Harris]

That is correct.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Have you followed up? If so, how have you followed up to find out why there's this preference for the lump sum? That seems contrary to what the expectations were.

[Steven Harris]

As you noted, I think the design of the program was meant to encourage people to take the monthly amount. People can make their own decisions with respect to how they wish to receive their disability compensation, and many are doing that. In some cases, it could be small amounts. Their disability pain and suffering compensation is not a very small amount, maybe $25,000, so over a long period of time it may not be worth it.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Yes, I hear you. Thank you.

According to the Office of the Ombudsman, VAC's data from December of 2022 indicated that 65% of veterans eligible for pain and suffering compensation were choosing a lump sum. That was back in 2022.

Are you aware of the percentages now for 2023-24 and 2024-25, yes or no?

[Steven Harris]

What I have for the figure right now is still between 60% and 65%. It's consistent.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

It's comparable to what it's been, and so the amount.... Okay.

How have you followed up with those who chose the lump sum to do any kind of research to find out why they're making that choice?

[Steven Harris]

I think there have been many conversations that have happened through veteran engagements, forums and others.

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Do you have anything in writing that shows why this change is taking place? I wonder if it isn't because they feel safer having their money in their hands to improve their own life quality. Are they moving into small businesses and needing those? What is the rationale for doing that? Do we not know?

[Steven Harris]

I don't. Every individual situation may be different.

To your point, somebody may wish to have that money immediately to put it to use for something specific to them.